POSTED UNDER Body Lift REVIEWS
Lost 70lbs, Wanted my Body Back - Santa Monica, CA
ORIGINAL POST
Ok so this review is going to be long, and I’m...
SmchangeOctober 15, 2014
WORTH IT$20,000
Ok so this review is going to be long, and I’m going to break it up into a few parts: Why I got surgery, my research for a doc and procedure, preparing for surgery, day of, recovery, and my body now.
I’m in my 30s and have struggled with my weight for my entire life. I've gained and lost 20lbs so many times I've lost track, but it wasn't until I went through a very hard and depressive time about 6 years ago that it became out of control. I was emotionally eating and gained almost 100lbs in less than a year.
It took me about 2 years to figure out how to lost it without crash dieting or obsessive exercise. The weight loss process took about a year and a half once I finally got the hang of it, and ultimately I lost about 70lbs through diet and exercise only.
I was not at an artificially low weight; and that's important for this surgery I think. I was at a weight that I'd maintained for a year with healthy eating and regular exercise, but a weight that meant I could occasionally eat too much on the weekend with my friends without freaking out.
What no one tells you about losing that much weight though, is that your never goes all the way back. My breasts looked like deflated balloons, my stomach and but had an apron of skin hanging around my mid section. I’m sharing the pics Dr. Teitelbaum took of me pre op. While I hate looking at them, but you can’t really tell this story without photos. No amount of diet, running, or sit ups was going to do anything about it. For a long time I wanted to believe I could learn to live with it, but ultimately I decided that I’d worked so hard to get my health back, I wanted my body to reflect it.
So about a year ago I started researching procedures, and learned that I should be at a stable weight for at least 6 months before doing this type of procedure. It’s a bit one and has a lot of risks, you don’t want to be at anything less than ideal health.
I had support from a lot of amazing friends and family; people who had seen me before I gained weight, watched me concerned as I gained it all, and encouraged me along the way as I lost it. Those close to me knew I was doing this; everyone else was on a “need to know” basis.
I saw three doctors before I decide on Dr. Teitelbaum. I’d looked at so many websites and reviews, I was blown away when I saw his website and before / after photos. Because his work just looked so natural. Every other doctor or website I saw, people looked pulled so tight that they didn’t look feminine; I still wanted that. I still wanted curves. I just didn’t want hanging and flapping skin.
Dr Teitelbaum is not the warmest and fuzziest of doctors during the consultation. The consultation was fast. I went in armed with a list of questions and while he made sure he answered them, it was fairly clear to me that “that part” of the process isn’t his favorite. I don’t think I really realized why that was until after the surgery; the man is so absurdly talented so he’s in super demand and would probably rather be operating every day. Thankfully he has great nurses and other staff who are good at that stuff. But more on that later.
Of the two other doctors I saw, one wanted to do just a tummy tuck, and the other wanted to do much much more. Doc A did not specialize in body work; he was primarily a face and nose doc. In hindsight, I can’t even believe he was willing to do it and I am SOOO glad I didn’t book with him. He was my first opinion, and I am grateful every time I look in the mirror that I waited to get a second and third opinion. Of course, there was part of me that just wanted it “done”. But again, I lost weight the slow-and-steady way, I wanted to take the same approach to my surgery.
Doc B wanted to take a much more aggressive approach. Take out much more from my mid section and do a leg lift at the same time. He certainly was a talented doctor too, but there was something about it that just made me concerned; he wanted to do TOO much. It wouldn’t have been safe. As Dr T put it: 90% of the complications in surgery come from trying to get that last 10%.
Doc A was about half the cost of Doc B and Dr. Teitelbaum (around 20k). I know it’s a lot of money; I am not rich by any stretch and this is a ton of money for me. But I think it’s worth it to get the absolute best doctor you can. If you pick a bad or “cheap” doc, you could end up needing major revisions that could end up with the same cost in the end. But really, is this an area where you want to bargain hunt? You have one body and your health is for life. Wait more time and save more so you can spend the money and get the absolute best doctor you can afford.
As soon as I decided on Dr. Teitelbaum, I was reassured. The surgical packet they sent me was extensive and incredibly helpful in helping me to plan the 1.5months pre surgery, and prepare for recovery. Of course, I was still nervous that I wouldn’t have “enough” of a change. I had momentary regrets of not going with Doc B, worried that I’d wake up from surgery wishing I’d done more.
I scheduled another appointment with Dr. Teitelbaum to talk about my surgery some more, just because I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page about results and the plan: a belt lipectomy, not a full body lift because there was simply too much weight in my legs to do it safely. Had he tried to do more, there would have been too much tension on the incision and it could have resulted in the incision separating, or a wide, stretched scar. I’m glad I listened to him, and not the advice on the internet. These terms, body lift vs. belt lipectomy, are not really important. Having the absolute best surgeon you can find is, so they can come up with the best solution for your body. One of my concerns was being pear-shaped after surgery: that just removing the skin from my stomach would end up with my legs looking disproportionately large. Dr. Teitelbaum knew that, and knew what I was looking for. I’ll add though, that as busy of a surgeon as he is, he didn’t remember that from our conversation: it was his notes from my initial consultation and the dictation that reminded him of all our discussions on the morning of surgery. So make sure you raise all of your questions / concerns in your appointment so he has that info the morning of.
If you’re going to do this surgery, follow your doctor’s advice to the letter. I’m going to give some advice here, but don’t let my advice outweigh what your doc says. 3 areas to focus: emotional support, nutrition, preparing for post-surgery.
Emotional Support: you cannot do this alone. This is a huge surgery with a 3 week plus recovery time. It’s scary. There are risks of blood clots and major complications. I had wonderful friends and family I could talk to about this. Every article I’ve read about healing says that stress is one of the major obstacles to healing well: it causes physiological changes in your body that interfere with healing. Friends, faith, family, whatever that means for you, make sure you have a great A-Team who can help in the weeks before and after surgery.
Nutrition: The packet I got from Dr. Teitelbaum emphasized that this was not a time to go on a crash diet, and I didn’t try. I kept doing what I’d done to lose and maintain the weight loss: healthy foods most of the time, moderate exercise, etc. I stopped drinking a few weeks out, and stopped taking advil / other meds they recommended avoiding. Listen to your doc here. I also recommend doing core strength training; I’d already been doing this for 2 years pre surgery, but I think having a strong mid-section made recovery a lot faster.
Preparing for post-surgery: I choose to go to a surgical recovery center for a few days, because I knew I would need a lot of help in the first few days. But at home, I needed to make sure I had everything I needed for a week and half or so of no driving, lifting, etc. For me this meant making sure things were pulled out from storage, that I had lots of quick-to-prepare foods. The one thing I wish I’d done was trust the my doc’s advice and get Gatorade or pedialyte. I was SOOO dehydrated after the anesthesia. I’ve never drank that stuff (who drinks calories when they are trying to lose weight?), so I assumed I wouldn’t. I was wrong and I needed it big time.
The morning of surgery, I was pretty nervous. A friend drove me and waited with me until I went in. The process was longer than I expected: about 3 hours between arrival and anesthesia. The marking process was the weirdest. Photos and guide lines all around my body, and had to get used to someone touching / pulling on my body. I’ve never let anyone touch my stomach, so it was strange. But I get why it’s necessary. Try to remember that your surgeon is trying to understand YOUR body. Learn your anatomy so he / she can make the best result possible.
Once I hit the pre-op room and they gave me a valium, the rest is sort of a blur. Next thing I know. I’m waking up and it’s all over. Wow did it every feel weird. I had 4 drains places in my mid-section to remove extra blood and fluid. That was what I felt when I first woke up. Weird pressure in my public area where the drains were, and of course an overall feeling of discomfort. They gave me a pain shot and that helped a lot. I was dehydrated and felt dizzy; they gave me apple juice and I immediately felt better.
That first day sucked, but it was not nearly as painful as I was expecting. Though I had the option to take another pain shot or oxy that night, I ended up only having a Tylenol IV. It was definitely uncomfortable, but I’m of the opinion that I would rather be a little uncomfortable. Pain is your body’s way of telling you when something isn’t right: if you’re moving too much or in a position that was pulling on the incision. I wanted to be able to know that. My mid section was already fully numb; they cut nerves of course, and warned me that it would take a few months for sensation to come back. It’s still a bit strange to not be able to feel part of your body, but it’s coming back. I was also VERY hunched over after surgery; a lot more than I was expecting. I was nervous about it, but 3 weeks later I’m fully upright and feeling fantastic.
The biggest risk with this procedure is blood clots: So I made sure to get up every hour or two and walk, even if it was a pain in the ass to get in / out of bed. I also tried to tighten my leg and stomach muscles as I was lying in bed, to promote circulation. And I had compression boots on my legs whenever I was in bed. Dr Teitelbaum also put me on a 10-day course of blood thinner shots. They also made me dehydrated (insert Gatorade reminder here).
After surgery is a time when knowing your body becomes really important. I was craving salty food, and while my doc had recommended against eating too much salt, I think my body was craving them because I was so dehydrated. As soon as I allowed myself to have some salty food, my energy levels came back.
After the Tylenol IV was done, I was on Oxycodone for a few days at about half the dosage prescribed. I was afraid if I went off it completely I would have pain, and I needed to give my body / liver a break before I could take more Tylenol. But about 4 days after surgery I stopped taking the oxy and could resume taking Tylenol. I was glad to be off it; it made me so loopy and made it hard to sleep.
Dr Teitelbaum and his staff checked up on me a lot for the first 2 weeks. Plenty of appointments, emails, phone calls, etc. I had his cell number and called him a few times when something felt weird; when I had a strange tingling in my arm or when the dehydration felt particularly bad. This was when I understood why the consultation was so quick: this man is incredibly busy and attentive to his patients and there is only so much time in the world. He answered my questions late at night or early in the morning, phone calls on the weekend
The week or so of recovery at home was uncomfortable, but another place where you need a lot of support from friends. Friends who trucked over cases of Gatorade and meals for me, sat with me to watch stupid television, and cried with me when I got emotional. Be prepared for that. I was low on sleep, uncomfortable, and vulnerable. Have good people who love you who can help you through that.
I’m going to post some pictures later this week, because a picture will tell a thousand words of praise for Dr Teiltelbaum. All of the research I did paid off, because hereally is an artist. He did exactly the right amount: my stomach is completely flat, the incision is tiny and not stretched, and yet I still have feminine curves. I still have a butt. He just gets the female form, and what to do on the operating table to make it happen.
I didn’t fully see it that first week; it’s hard to imagine when you have tubes coming out of you and are so swollen. But three weeks later, I can’t believe it when I look in the mirror. I feel like I’m looking a picture of myself from my teenage years. Before I tortured my body with yo-yo dieting, before I gained all the weight, before I had the body of a woman twice my age. I can’t even believe it’s possible to undo all of that. I never thought I’d have this kind of result. Any fear I had that he wouldn’t “do enough” was completely ridiculous. I think he just didn’t want me to have unreal expectations. I never thought I’d be as happy with the result as I am.
Oh, and he gave me the most adorable new belly button you’ll ever see.
I’m planning to do a breast lift in a few months, after I’ve healed completely. I want to wait and see what my body looks like after the swelling is completely gone to decide if I also want to get a breast reduction (I’m currently an F in cup size). I fully trust Dr. Teitelbaum to give me breasts that will fit my body.
I know this was long, but my final thought is this: if you have lost a lot of weight, do what you need to do to give yourself the body you deserve. Work hard to lose the weight and do everything you can to be as healthy as you can, and then find the best surgeon you can. Don’t rush the process. Don’t go with the first doctor you see, even if you feel an urgency to “get it done”.
You only have one body and one life.
I’m in my 30s and have struggled with my weight for my entire life. I've gained and lost 20lbs so many times I've lost track, but it wasn't until I went through a very hard and depressive time about 6 years ago that it became out of control. I was emotionally eating and gained almost 100lbs in less than a year.
It took me about 2 years to figure out how to lost it without crash dieting or obsessive exercise. The weight loss process took about a year and a half once I finally got the hang of it, and ultimately I lost about 70lbs through diet and exercise only.
I was not at an artificially low weight; and that's important for this surgery I think. I was at a weight that I'd maintained for a year with healthy eating and regular exercise, but a weight that meant I could occasionally eat too much on the weekend with my friends without freaking out.
What no one tells you about losing that much weight though, is that your never goes all the way back. My breasts looked like deflated balloons, my stomach and but had an apron of skin hanging around my mid section. I’m sharing the pics Dr. Teitelbaum took of me pre op. While I hate looking at them, but you can’t really tell this story without photos. No amount of diet, running, or sit ups was going to do anything about it. For a long time I wanted to believe I could learn to live with it, but ultimately I decided that I’d worked so hard to get my health back, I wanted my body to reflect it.
So about a year ago I started researching procedures, and learned that I should be at a stable weight for at least 6 months before doing this type of procedure. It’s a bit one and has a lot of risks, you don’t want to be at anything less than ideal health.
I had support from a lot of amazing friends and family; people who had seen me before I gained weight, watched me concerned as I gained it all, and encouraged me along the way as I lost it. Those close to me knew I was doing this; everyone else was on a “need to know” basis.
I saw three doctors before I decide on Dr. Teitelbaum. I’d looked at so many websites and reviews, I was blown away when I saw his website and before / after photos. Because his work just looked so natural. Every other doctor or website I saw, people looked pulled so tight that they didn’t look feminine; I still wanted that. I still wanted curves. I just didn’t want hanging and flapping skin.
Dr Teitelbaum is not the warmest and fuzziest of doctors during the consultation. The consultation was fast. I went in armed with a list of questions and while he made sure he answered them, it was fairly clear to me that “that part” of the process isn’t his favorite. I don’t think I really realized why that was until after the surgery; the man is so absurdly talented so he’s in super demand and would probably rather be operating every day. Thankfully he has great nurses and other staff who are good at that stuff. But more on that later.
Of the two other doctors I saw, one wanted to do just a tummy tuck, and the other wanted to do much much more. Doc A did not specialize in body work; he was primarily a face and nose doc. In hindsight, I can’t even believe he was willing to do it and I am SOOO glad I didn’t book with him. He was my first opinion, and I am grateful every time I look in the mirror that I waited to get a second and third opinion. Of course, there was part of me that just wanted it “done”. But again, I lost weight the slow-and-steady way, I wanted to take the same approach to my surgery.
Doc B wanted to take a much more aggressive approach. Take out much more from my mid section and do a leg lift at the same time. He certainly was a talented doctor too, but there was something about it that just made me concerned; he wanted to do TOO much. It wouldn’t have been safe. As Dr T put it: 90% of the complications in surgery come from trying to get that last 10%.
Doc A was about half the cost of Doc B and Dr. Teitelbaum (around 20k). I know it’s a lot of money; I am not rich by any stretch and this is a ton of money for me. But I think it’s worth it to get the absolute best doctor you can. If you pick a bad or “cheap” doc, you could end up needing major revisions that could end up with the same cost in the end. But really, is this an area where you want to bargain hunt? You have one body and your health is for life. Wait more time and save more so you can spend the money and get the absolute best doctor you can afford.
As soon as I decided on Dr. Teitelbaum, I was reassured. The surgical packet they sent me was extensive and incredibly helpful in helping me to plan the 1.5months pre surgery, and prepare for recovery. Of course, I was still nervous that I wouldn’t have “enough” of a change. I had momentary regrets of not going with Doc B, worried that I’d wake up from surgery wishing I’d done more.
I scheduled another appointment with Dr. Teitelbaum to talk about my surgery some more, just because I wanted to make sure we were both on the same page about results and the plan: a belt lipectomy, not a full body lift because there was simply too much weight in my legs to do it safely. Had he tried to do more, there would have been too much tension on the incision and it could have resulted in the incision separating, or a wide, stretched scar. I’m glad I listened to him, and not the advice on the internet. These terms, body lift vs. belt lipectomy, are not really important. Having the absolute best surgeon you can find is, so they can come up with the best solution for your body. One of my concerns was being pear-shaped after surgery: that just removing the skin from my stomach would end up with my legs looking disproportionately large. Dr. Teitelbaum knew that, and knew what I was looking for. I’ll add though, that as busy of a surgeon as he is, he didn’t remember that from our conversation: it was his notes from my initial consultation and the dictation that reminded him of all our discussions on the morning of surgery. So make sure you raise all of your questions / concerns in your appointment so he has that info the morning of.
If you’re going to do this surgery, follow your doctor’s advice to the letter. I’m going to give some advice here, but don’t let my advice outweigh what your doc says. 3 areas to focus: emotional support, nutrition, preparing for post-surgery.
Emotional Support: you cannot do this alone. This is a huge surgery with a 3 week plus recovery time. It’s scary. There are risks of blood clots and major complications. I had wonderful friends and family I could talk to about this. Every article I’ve read about healing says that stress is one of the major obstacles to healing well: it causes physiological changes in your body that interfere with healing. Friends, faith, family, whatever that means for you, make sure you have a great A-Team who can help in the weeks before and after surgery.
Nutrition: The packet I got from Dr. Teitelbaum emphasized that this was not a time to go on a crash diet, and I didn’t try. I kept doing what I’d done to lose and maintain the weight loss: healthy foods most of the time, moderate exercise, etc. I stopped drinking a few weeks out, and stopped taking advil / other meds they recommended avoiding. Listen to your doc here. I also recommend doing core strength training; I’d already been doing this for 2 years pre surgery, but I think having a strong mid-section made recovery a lot faster.
Preparing for post-surgery: I choose to go to a surgical recovery center for a few days, because I knew I would need a lot of help in the first few days. But at home, I needed to make sure I had everything I needed for a week and half or so of no driving, lifting, etc. For me this meant making sure things were pulled out from storage, that I had lots of quick-to-prepare foods. The one thing I wish I’d done was trust the my doc’s advice and get Gatorade or pedialyte. I was SOOO dehydrated after the anesthesia. I’ve never drank that stuff (who drinks calories when they are trying to lose weight?), so I assumed I wouldn’t. I was wrong and I needed it big time.
The morning of surgery, I was pretty nervous. A friend drove me and waited with me until I went in. The process was longer than I expected: about 3 hours between arrival and anesthesia. The marking process was the weirdest. Photos and guide lines all around my body, and had to get used to someone touching / pulling on my body. I’ve never let anyone touch my stomach, so it was strange. But I get why it’s necessary. Try to remember that your surgeon is trying to understand YOUR body. Learn your anatomy so he / she can make the best result possible.
Once I hit the pre-op room and they gave me a valium, the rest is sort of a blur. Next thing I know. I’m waking up and it’s all over. Wow did it every feel weird. I had 4 drains places in my mid-section to remove extra blood and fluid. That was what I felt when I first woke up. Weird pressure in my public area where the drains were, and of course an overall feeling of discomfort. They gave me a pain shot and that helped a lot. I was dehydrated and felt dizzy; they gave me apple juice and I immediately felt better.
That first day sucked, but it was not nearly as painful as I was expecting. Though I had the option to take another pain shot or oxy that night, I ended up only having a Tylenol IV. It was definitely uncomfortable, but I’m of the opinion that I would rather be a little uncomfortable. Pain is your body’s way of telling you when something isn’t right: if you’re moving too much or in a position that was pulling on the incision. I wanted to be able to know that. My mid section was already fully numb; they cut nerves of course, and warned me that it would take a few months for sensation to come back. It’s still a bit strange to not be able to feel part of your body, but it’s coming back. I was also VERY hunched over after surgery; a lot more than I was expecting. I was nervous about it, but 3 weeks later I’m fully upright and feeling fantastic.
The biggest risk with this procedure is blood clots: So I made sure to get up every hour or two and walk, even if it was a pain in the ass to get in / out of bed. I also tried to tighten my leg and stomach muscles as I was lying in bed, to promote circulation. And I had compression boots on my legs whenever I was in bed. Dr Teitelbaum also put me on a 10-day course of blood thinner shots. They also made me dehydrated (insert Gatorade reminder here).
After surgery is a time when knowing your body becomes really important. I was craving salty food, and while my doc had recommended against eating too much salt, I think my body was craving them because I was so dehydrated. As soon as I allowed myself to have some salty food, my energy levels came back.
After the Tylenol IV was done, I was on Oxycodone for a few days at about half the dosage prescribed. I was afraid if I went off it completely I would have pain, and I needed to give my body / liver a break before I could take more Tylenol. But about 4 days after surgery I stopped taking the oxy and could resume taking Tylenol. I was glad to be off it; it made me so loopy and made it hard to sleep.
Dr Teitelbaum and his staff checked up on me a lot for the first 2 weeks. Plenty of appointments, emails, phone calls, etc. I had his cell number and called him a few times when something felt weird; when I had a strange tingling in my arm or when the dehydration felt particularly bad. This was when I understood why the consultation was so quick: this man is incredibly busy and attentive to his patients and there is only so much time in the world. He answered my questions late at night or early in the morning, phone calls on the weekend
The week or so of recovery at home was uncomfortable, but another place where you need a lot of support from friends. Friends who trucked over cases of Gatorade and meals for me, sat with me to watch stupid television, and cried with me when I got emotional. Be prepared for that. I was low on sleep, uncomfortable, and vulnerable. Have good people who love you who can help you through that.
I’m going to post some pictures later this week, because a picture will tell a thousand words of praise for Dr Teiltelbaum. All of the research I did paid off, because hereally is an artist. He did exactly the right amount: my stomach is completely flat, the incision is tiny and not stretched, and yet I still have feminine curves. I still have a butt. He just gets the female form, and what to do on the operating table to make it happen.
I didn’t fully see it that first week; it’s hard to imagine when you have tubes coming out of you and are so swollen. But three weeks later, I can’t believe it when I look in the mirror. I feel like I’m looking a picture of myself from my teenage years. Before I tortured my body with yo-yo dieting, before I gained all the weight, before I had the body of a woman twice my age. I can’t even believe it’s possible to undo all of that. I never thought I’d have this kind of result. Any fear I had that he wouldn’t “do enough” was completely ridiculous. I think he just didn’t want me to have unreal expectations. I never thought I’d be as happy with the result as I am.
Oh, and he gave me the most adorable new belly button you’ll ever see.
I’m planning to do a breast lift in a few months, after I’ve healed completely. I want to wait and see what my body looks like after the swelling is completely gone to decide if I also want to get a breast reduction (I’m currently an F in cup size). I fully trust Dr. Teitelbaum to give me breasts that will fit my body.
I know this was long, but my final thought is this: if you have lost a lot of weight, do what you need to do to give yourself the body you deserve. Work hard to lose the weight and do everything you can to be as healthy as you can, and then find the best surgeon you can. Don’t rush the process. Don’t go with the first doctor you see, even if you feel an urgency to “get it done”.
You only have one body and one life.
UPDATED FROM Smchange
25 days post
3 week mark
SmchangeOctober 18, 2014
So these pics were taken at exactly 3 weeks. There is still quite a bit of swelling of course, and I'm wearing a scar-shield that helps to hold the incision together as it heals (to avoid wider, stretched scars). So that's the clear plastic-type tape you see. There is also some indentation on my stomach from the compression garment I've been wearing.
It has been a life changing surgery already, and I'm still nowhere near where I'll be once all the swelling goes down. I'll keep posting more pics as time goes on.
I also realized that in my original review, I didn't mention Dr. Teitelbaum's exceptional nurse Karen. Not only did she answer all of my questions leading up to the surgery, but she was an extraordinary source of support in the days following. She's compassionate and I always knew she had my back and was looking out for me. I can't recommend this team enough.
It has been a life changing surgery already, and I'm still nowhere near where I'll be once all the swelling goes down. I'll keep posting more pics as time goes on.
I also realized that in my original review, I didn't mention Dr. Teitelbaum's exceptional nurse Karen. Not only did she answer all of my questions leading up to the surgery, but she was an extraordinary source of support in the days following. She's compassionate and I always knew she had my back and was looking out for me. I can't recommend this team enough.
Replies (2)
October 23, 2014
This was so extremely informative. I also really like the way you stress to be in a good place BEFORE one begins this journey. Thank you, and good luck for the future. You look stunning, already.
October 23, 2014
Thank you!! Yes I think that was really important. It's more difficult emotionally than physically I found. In part because I have been eating a LOT more after surgery than I was before. My body is craving good nutrition and good fats. Had I not been healthy before hand I think my appetite would have freaked me out.
UPDATED FROM Smchange
25 days post
Incision pics
SmchangeOctober 18, 2014
I took off the scar-shield this morning (will reapply it on Monday). So I thought I'd post two pics that show the incision more clearly. There is some irritation on my skin from the adhesive, and still some puckering that Dr. T has assured me is a completely normal for being only 3.5weeks out from surgery and still being fairly swollen. And the redness of the scar will fade, but I'm thrilled that it's such a tiny line. I thought it was going to be much wider and more noticeable.
Replies (3)
October 18, 2014
Excellent low and neat scar! Well done x
October 18, 2014
Thank you! I'm thrilled. Dr. Teitelbaum is an artist. I wish there was a better word that that.
Replies (9)