I went to Dr. Frankel for a repair of the bossae...
I went to Dr. Frankel for a repair of the bossae and he took off 6 mm off the front of my nose, removed my columella and cut off my footplates. All which we never discussed. He gave me a pointy tip when I asked for a larger boxy one. Even his morphs he didn't remove my columella. Very confusing and depressing.
Update---meeting with other doctors
So, I did meet with a few doctors to see if this is all in my mind and most of the doctors cannot believe doctor Frankel took off the footplates. They say, unlike Dr. Frankel, that no doctors do that. However, this is why my nose is kind of floating off my face and not attached anywhere. The nose is badly deviated to the side. The nostrils are crooked and it swings off to the left badly. I didn't realize these things, only the missing columella and supratip break that Frankel said he deliberately tried to remove despite me only wanting the bossae covered. I only found one doctor that thinks my case can be improved or even done at all. It is very depressing and hard right now, but, I have hope somehow that this can be improved after looking at some of the cases on here. Lots of offices have told me they do rib, but when I get there, they tell me they don't. So, it's been disappointing. I'm glad other doctors are telling me how badly retracted my nose is because Dr. Frankel is like, it's not retracted and I didn't remove anything. I want to put up photos and let you see, but only if I can take them down, which I don't know if I can. I do realize we all have styles of noses we like and Dr. F gave me his style, despite me asking for something exactly like my own nose with just the bossae covered. I want to help people not get a surgery if it looks okay. I was very pretty and now I'm not, which is so scary. Most of the doctors tell me Dr. Frankel should not have touched my nose, but I wanted the bossae covered and discussed it with him and made sure we were on the same page. I felt I did everything right. Telling him, if you cannot do it, please don't. He promised not to take anything off. My columella now sits in a ball in between my nostrils which I found out yesterday from Rady Rahban. However, it's not so easy to just pull them down and re-suture them to something. They are grow together at some point and that is what I am dealing with and going to doctors to undo.
He offered to fix it but told me my nose was short because of my age
Dr. Frankel met with me and told me my nose is over-shortened because of age. Literally, he said this. Instead of admitting he shortened it over 6 mm, he told me that he never speaks in millimeters. When I pointed out his whole surgical report is speaking in millimeters, he got upset and told me he regrets ever doing it and tried very hard to get rid of the columella and supratip. When I asked why he would do something that I never asked for, that when I asked for a larger, fuller nose, he said he was up all weekend thinking about it. Trust me, so am I.
I guess what I want everyone to know is revisions can go horribly wrong and i was pretty and now just look meh. Seriously, Both me and the doctor wish we didn't do this. Think twice a person touching you if you are still pretty and very happy, which I was. This has been the hardest year and a half of my life so far. I can't do selfies and my friends and family think i chose this hideous shape. it's so embarrassing. I'm going to get it fixed this month and then I will post all the crazy photos. I want everyone to please make sure you like the aesthetic of the doctor you choose, because though I did not like Frankel's aesthetic, He assured me he could do the minor things I wanted. Instead of completely giving me a different nose. i thought we were on the same page since I asked for something larger. He took off all the length and I really don't see many people on here with more length. I hope for the best and I hope you guys are okay too. Two of my friends also had a disastrous result with this surgeon. Seemingly he did whatever he wanted on our faces without explaining what it meant. I'm going to be okay for sure, but it's been on an off terrible.
Update---Septum is cut
Today, I got some hard news. My new surgeon explained that the other surgeon most likely cut the front of my septum off and gave me a tongue and groove. Both of which are not in the report. I went into my car and cried, not because hope was gone, but because I finally know my suspicions were true even though my other doctor wouldn't admit to cutting it. I feel that these surgeons have to say what happened in the report so the next person can help, and he didn't. So, I'm not even that mad. I'm more like--OMG. how could they do this to me? but, also, I'm looking towards the future. I feel so much hope. I met doctors who took all my hope away. A few of them, in fact. I think they have a responsibility to tell us, yeah I can't do it, but keep looking. One doctor told me anyone who said they could help me was a liar. Literally. who says that? My septum was cut off and thrown in the trash, and NO ONE ON PLANET EARTH can help me? That's sort of not fair to say. Just because i don't know Japanese doesn't mean I go around and tell people no one knows Japanese or it can't be learned. Do you know what I mean--even if it makes very little sense? Like who does that? I've been okay though. I have been trying to be happy anyway. Trying to find humor and joy in life even though I don't look the same and trying to find a solution for the situation. Some days are worse than others to be honest, but at least i'm trying to be a person. I might look weird and different, but when I look in the mirror, I still see a good person. Not someone who deliberately crushes people's hopes. I'm very disappointed in a few doctors here in Los Angeles who did that to me and my friends. But, I want everyone to know. this has been one of the hardest things I've ever gone through. some days I laugh really hard about it with my other friends and some days I cry openly, but at least I'm out here in life trying to be better. to anyone in this position, there is always hope, you just have to have an open heart and keep looking and ask people on here first. I know it can be so painful to have a bad outcome, but most people can get improvement, with the proper research. At least that is my belief. Sending you all good wishes. Sincerely, thank you for helping me each and every one of you. Thank you for your compassion and your inbox messages, those of you who want to be private but had the same experience. It has made me feel less alone, it has restored my belief in humanity. Sincerely.
No Wonder he stayed up all weekend.
I finally got his actual email so I don't have to go through the front desk anymore. I realize when I found out about the footplates, the reason he couldn't sleep was because he knew I'd find out he cut off the end of my septum. There is tucking also, but that is what happened to me. I could barely sleep.
Why do Doctors Lie about what was Performed?
This is getting to me. Why do doctors not tell the truth, so at least the patient is armed with the information when trying to get help somewhere else? Why don't they just tell you, it looks like that because I did this? This would cause a lot less pain in the people who have these issues. i'm going to start a revolution. Sometimes I see doctors lie to patients, oh it's just swelling or oh you have to wait. And literally, it is not just swelling, it's a bad surgical outcome. Why can't they be honest so we can get help and actual hope!! Dr. Elam is honest. Dr. Yoo is honest. Dr. Hamilton is honest. and i'm sure many doctors are honest--but I met with some that could not or would not tell me the truth about what was going on. Especially the doctor who did this. That makes me very sad and I don't want to see that happen to anyone else---but I guess it is common. I did all my laundry last night, made some art, worked on a script and I ordered Sugarfish--(the most delicious sushi out here) and I have more hope now that I know what happened to me and my surgery is coming up. Sending you all the best! You are not alone!
So, as I sit here this morning, very grateful for my life and all the wonderful people in it, I realize that this whole experience can me made into something good. Not that it happened, I don't think it should have, but that I have a community of people who have had wonderful experiences with revisions and also horror stories that turned into beautiful results. We see so many people on here get wonderful revisions, that I am certain trusting this doctor was part of my downfall. But, the fears that plague us all are...now who do we trust? We have been told to stretch our noses because the wait list is extremely long for certain doctors. We have been told we can never ever have anything done again. We have been told no tips can be improved or even fixed by doctors that don't know how. We have been told we still look "okay." But, the successful people on here do find a doctor who tells them the truth, "Your other nose was better, and I can help you." They don't over promise they can get you back to that exact nose, but they at least have hope. And the successful revisions I do see them again and again, are those with plenty of support who run it by someone, as I did not do in my surgery. I trusted completely a doctor who took off my columella and shortened my septum even though that was not the agreed upon plan. But, it's like having a bad boyfriend isn't it? The reason I always have boyfriends, is because I don't look at one bad experience as a damning evidence against all men. I look at it as one bad experience. And though some days I get upset that I was lied to by the doctor that did this, which only served to delay me getting help, I have now found two Los Angeles doctors who can and will help me, who agreed I looked better with a longer nose and didn't mince words. I also had friends that lied to me, but I demanded a friend tell me the truth, otherwise, I would still be living in denial. I saw something wrong and trusted that instinct enough to get my money back, but when people ask me why I waited so long (almost two years in January) it's because I didn't know how to do the research. This time I got lucky. I met some people who had done way more research than I have and told me which doctors to see for my issues. I am here to tell you, I trust in surgeons, but this time also am choosing the one who shares my aesthetic goals as well as what comes out of their mouths match their photos. Instead of my belief that they will do what they say despite their photos. So, I have a part in this as well. Not in terms of karma, but in terms of you can't go to Target and expect to get Burberry. I thought I was going to the best even when my own instinct told me something wasn't right. Because I was told he was the best. But, in my case, with my aesthetic, which is larger noses look better and are more current in the trend of faces, he wasn't and I saw that, but wanted to believe in him. This time is a little different. The two surgeons I have met with, who actually did offer hope, both share a love for larger noses with aesthetic refinement and a feminine shape. So, guys, Happy Thanksgiving. I'm moving forward with my revision on Monday and I've been scared a lot, but I trust this time will offer me with positive results. Something closer to what I had--which is what my surgeon is going to try to do. Eat and be merry. I'm going to the gym first. lol. Sending you all your fantastic plastic surgery dreams. May everyone's' aesthetic goals be reached and try not to let it get you down today. We are still alive on the planet to find help and be helped and help one another. Take care and thank you for reading my story.
Before Photos----to The RealSelf Community---A hearty Thank you.
I think that I owe it to the realself community to post photos. You guys are so supportive and awesome. As you can see, I had a nice nose. The thing I went in for was a little bossae on the tip which I wanted covered, not shaved, covered to make it fuller. I wanted a fuller nose because my first surgery left me with very little cartilage which I experienced as shrinkage and points sticking out. Instead, Frankel took off the entire front end of my nose, which I will post in another update in a few minutes. Changed the shape, which I loved wholeheartedly and dearly. He took my doublebreak straight off, the most feminine part of the female nose in my opinion, which gave me sex appeal and attractiveness. By the way, I was born with a doublebreak, my mother even has one. So, to take it away hurt my feelings of identity and self. This was not just a little bump or crookedness, this was the entire shape of my nose, changed without my permission.
This is After Photos
As you can see the entire front end was cut off and it aged my face instantly. When I asked what he did to me he told me my nose looked short because of age, when in fact the truth was he actually cut my septum with scissors and threw it away. I kept asking what was wrong with it and he kept saying the columella was still there. This cruelty keeps people in denial and deprives them of seeking solutions or knowing how to fix it. Had he just told me he cut off my septum and columella I could have told the surgeons I met with what happened to my nose, Instead he hid it to the degree it is even missing from my surgical report. I have had so many people write me with the same experience.
Someone asked for a Frontal View
Hi guys, some of you asked for this. It's so ugly, I apologize, but here it is.
Update--There is Hope!
I was thinking this morning how grateful I am. Not that this happened to me but that I found a few people to actually diagnose what was wrong. I had some doctors say nothing could ever be done again and it took away all hope, but I knew in my heart that wasn't true and I kept asking people on here and looking for a solution in the doctors that were recommended to fix noses like mine---builders not those who take away from the nose. To anyone going through this, the loss is so dramatic, and I feel so sad for us that we are dealing with it, but there is hope! There are doctors that will say, yes! I can help you. Be careful of the ones who say they can but their books look off. I know I have a part in this too. I had no idea this would or could happen to me. I am a careful person--I have a big personality but I am also sensitive and believe in the goodness of people. But, in this case, so many other people have written to me that also had this surgeon do this to them and then charge for revisions and keep saying it needed another one and another one, that I see a pattern. These same people had "secret" overages after the surgery took place, like I did. I reminded the office that I remembered waking up and speaking to the doctor and to my boyfriend still within the time frame of the surgery and he didn't go over, however, I was charged a month later for $500. If it was just me, I would think, okay, everyone makes a mistake, but he and I had an agreement to not take tissue off my nose. So, I know this was deliberate and the most frustrating part is he refused to tell me what happened, which would have upset me, but at least it would have allowed me to seek treatment to fix it and know what needed to be fixed way sooner. And due to all the people who have written to me, I know I am not the only one. The most scary part of all is the lies. When you are asking why does my nose look like this and they are making things up to cover their actions. I think that is terribly unethical, especially when you have other doctors telling you you are not seeing things. I found out a lot more was done during this surgery than was on the op report, but I will eventually write it all down for you so you can see for yourself. But, for now, I am recovering and staying positive and shopping online for cute things and trying to remember I am a girl, a woman, a person, a human with thoughts and feelings and I need to acknowledge this was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me, but that said, there was still hope. I see other tragic stories on here get help. You just need to be so careful about letting the surgeon re-do your nose if he doesn't have the skill to do so or the aesthetic sensibilities to do so. In my surgeon's case, I think he is deliberately being sloppy to get another revision and these secret charges should not be happening to each and every one of us. I'm sad for his staff. They try to tell you you will be okay and then hide from you because they cannot see what this mad-scientist doctor did to your face. Still I have a part. His photos did not match my aesthetic. I believed his words and just shouldn't have. As we go into the holiday season, I have a bandage on my face, but my heart has always been pure. It remains that way even after everything. I have seen many bad cases like mine get help. There are some very good ethical doctors around. Don't give up.
A few notes about the nose and why we need to know about them
This journey has been one of the hardest things that's ever happened to me, but i really would have been helped had Dr. Frankel just been honest and told me what was going on so I could seek treatment. I think it's so important to talk to one another about our noses. Some women do not like the columella and the nostril show and in many textbooks it is cut off or reduced, but to me that is a natural portion of the nose and I liked mine. My tip was also tucked, but it took my friends on here to explain what was going on with my nose for me to understand it. I needed to understand concepts of the columella strut and rim grafts and it is the way the grafts are used that can make all the difference in having a feminine result. Yes, this was my mistake in choosing the wrong surgeon who did not share my aesthetic vision, but also I didn't know what had happened, which prolonged the misery. I had my revision on Monday, but I hear from others that they let doctors do another revision and another one without ever really understanding what happened. I always say get a nose mentor, someone who can look at your face and help you. Find someone who knows more than you do about the nose. So, whatever your choices are, may they be rooted in what you find to be feminine on a nose. I have a long Philtrum. What is a Philtrum? I had no idea what it was, but it is why I knew I looked better with a larger nose and that was the surgical procedure I went in for. I knew it intuitively and aeshetically, but not the medical term for it. So, I didn't mention it when I went in for my surgery--I just said I wanted a larger nose, when I should have been saying I wanted a fuller nose to cover the bossae. Longer noses cover that long space between the upper lip and the nose itself. I knew this to be aeshetically true, but I didn't know what it was called, so when it was cut and shortened, that balance to my face that had always been there was drastically "off". philtrum----is the vertical groove between the base of the nose and the border of the upper lip. It is the junction between the two halves of the upper lip or of an animal's nose.
Some mornings I wake up and I realize that this does happen to people but the prolonged misery is the really horrific part. I feel positive, I looked at women who reached their aesthetic goals and they always had a very good mind set and I think this is important. We are not our noses, but we do deserve nice ones that go with our faces. One girl even told me she thought what happened to her was punishment for thinking she was pretty and I thought it was just an unfortunate result and a bit of salesmanship. I think doctors that don't know what to do often take away rather than add and it's very important to find one that works with you to achieve what looks good on your particular face. I really believe it's just a matter of choosing a different surgeon and retaining hope.
How I hid
I have always liked masks, literally, this is how I hid for the last year.
Update--7 days---consults before my choice
hi guys, after all of this, I just want to say how relieved I am that I was able to tell my story on here and get the help and support of people who had been through the same thing and follow their guidance when choosing a surgeon. I know it's hard to deal with losing your looks and I went through this and it was hard, but I'm a good person and whether or not I ever got this fixed, was up to me. I have written to a lot of you to your inbox and told you who I chose for my revision and I have submitted my new review of the new surgeon to realself and they have not uploaded it yet. I'm still in a cast and I itch like hell and I wish they would post it so I could tell you all how it's going and show you photos of me in my cast. But, I'd like to keep this experience separate somehow, as if that can give it luck! I wrote to your inboxes and answered your questions if you asked me and many times you didn't respond. So, I hope you got the information you needed and that my responses are getting through to you. The reason I didn't go back to my primary plastic surgeon is complex. I called him many times to ask what happened and the office never even bothered to call me back. I was upset and posted on Better Business Bureau, which caused that surgeon to admit on a public forum to not ever having done the surgical procedure that I paid for from breaking my nose. So, that was when I found Dr. Frankel--at that time I also met with Dr. Calvert and Dr. Torkian and Dr. Rollin Daniel. All in all, I wish I had asked more questions here before choosing Dr. Frankel because honestly it seems like there must have been something more I could have done to prevent this occurence. By the amount of people who wrote to me, I realize i am not alone and that is not to say he doesn't have some happy patients. After the Dr. Frankel situation, I met with Dr. Kotler, Dr. Rahban, Dr. Yoo, Dr. Hamilton and Dr. Rawnsley before choosing my doctor to perform the revision. Dr. Kotler told me that the only way I could fix my nose was silicone, and he told me I was still pretty good looking. He was walking around another woman (staff?) who he was training and didn't really look at me that much. He wanted to charge $750 for a saline test of the silicone (which I would never consider to begin with). The issue with Dr. Kotler's office was that they told me he does complex revisions and he did not do that kind of work. They said he does rib, but he told me he does not. When I mentioned it to the office, they told me they thought I wanted filler. It was a very uncomfortable situation and I in no way think they should have bothered meeting me just to make money when I had been clear I wanted rib or ear and would most likely need it. They wouldn't give me my photos when I asked for them and finally I told them I was going to the medical board if they didn't since I paid for the consultation. So, within ten minutes I got my photos. Then I cried. I was so frustrated. Then, I met with Dr. Rawnsley because I liked his work in some of his shots. He told me the worst of all, that nothing could be done to my tip at all, there was absolutely no hope. Maybe he could lower my bridge a little, but nothing else could be done for me and to forget about getting my length back. When I asked why plastic surgeons build tips all the time and why was he saying that, he said no plastic surgeon can build a tip or reshape it. It was nonsense. He also told me he didn't do rib even though the front desk told me he did when I made my appointment. So, Again, this made me feel so sad. Next was Rahban, I was very excited to meet Dr. Rahban because I simply adore his work, however, Dr. Rahban made a list of things that had been done to me and told me that because I was still pretty, I should never touch my nose again. He told me anyone who told me they could give me length was lying to me. He refused to look at my photos of my pre-nose because it would upset him too much. I thought he was a nice person, but I found that to be a very unethical thing to do to someone in my position, to take away all hope. At this point, three down and the way they were acting made me pretty depressed. But, then I still had two to go. When I met Dr. Yoo--he instantly shocked me because the first thing he said indicated i looked better before and he could try to get me back to that look. I was in shock after just learning about my footplates and he told me he could not repair them, but that I might not care that much after everything else was done. I asked if he would remove my grafts and he said he could but he would have to put more in just thinner ones. I asked about the nostril rims being removed and he told me he could but would have to add some back in case the nostrils collapsed. I liked Dr. Yoo and was in total shock that he thought he could fix me I think I cried really hard in my car on the way home. The following week, I met Dr. Hamilton. Dr. Hamilton was super nice and I had seen Matlow92, RevRhino18 and a a few other women he had worked on and really liked his work. We got along quite well and he told me the most important thing of all---my old nose looked better, in fact he loved it so much. He and Dr. Yoo could do rib and I liked their aesthetic. They both thought they could help me--so even though I struck out three times, i had two very good, capable candidates. So, I made my decision based on the last two doctors. The people who write me and ask who I recommend, I guess it depends what you need and want. I needed length and my columella and infratip lobule back and the doctors I met with, I had heard were good at those things. I worked on a movie and one girl worked for Kotler and said he helped a lot of people--he was the only one whose aesthetic I didn't really study before our meeting--but he didn't end up doing the kind of work I needed anyway. How did I keep myself positive after three people said no to me? By looking at success stories on here and modeling myself after their mindset. By thinking of the future with a new improved nose. By telling my friends to hold happy thoughts for me. By believing in myself and in my surgeon.
I keep getting requests to put my photos back up, so here they are. i'll most likely take them down in a day or two.
Morphs vs. Actuality
This is also why I feel morphs are dangerous. He claims he tried to achieve this and I guess kept taking off tissue but overshot his mark. However, I think if he had actually looked at my face or the notes he never would have done this. I try not to believe it was intentional. But, it's so awful to see it.
I took a few photos down.
But, this was before this happening.
More memories and a collective thank you
So many of you know I was very sad about the outcome of this surgery. I went in for a larger nose. Actually had been getting juvederm placed in it and went in to acheive it permanently. I chose the wrong surgeon. He isn't board certified. I found out from his lawyer. So, literally, now, so many of you have been so kind to me. I wanted to say thank you. Nothing can prepare you for this kind of event. Your life changes forever and the person laughs when you try to get information. We have very little protections under the law. Please, if you are pretty, don't trust just anyone. And if it weren't for you, I would be so lost right now. Thank you for every kindness and every encouragement. I have only tried to help others but still feel I don't quite have myself back. I'm struggling some days more than others. Sometimes people are like you are still pretty. But, it's not the same. My face looked balanced and is still missing the bottom and the top of my nose. But, keep hope. I am.
No way out
At first I believed I could fix this. But, I'm not so sure anymore. Some doctors say there is no hope and others say maybe you need a specialist. One was like, fly out and i'll do it today! But, why are some saying it will be 10 hour surgeries and some saying 2 hours. I don't really feel like I'll ever be well at this point. I'm devastated. And some people on here are being mean to me, and I just want to say, meanness contributes to these surgeries. Please keep your comments of judgment to yourself, if you have them. Gossip about it, but don't tell me. I'm barely here and trying to be here and it's very hard.
Depressor Muscle and Nasal spine shaved
My lip has always looked different since this surgery, but I just got confirmation that both the Nasal spine was removed and the Depressor muscle cut despite my asking the office if this happened and being told it didn't. I got a few pictures of selfies where I had a bow like lip that simply dropped into a masculine line after the surgery. I'm telling you guys in case it happened to you as well, you will need to not only get your nose fixed but your lip lifted slightly to regain the original look. Unless a graft can be placed there. I read about a sinus maxio-something graft for when tissue is removed from that area.. It also finally explains why I cannot do selfies anymore. I don't have that lip angle now. Sorry to be bleak, but, any information to get our faces back actually cheers me up some even though it will be costly. Ben Talei and Ronald Haworth are good as well as Hilinski. But, I think the nose has to be fixed first. hopefully you can see the difference. So, this entire time it wasn't just the nose, but also the lip that changed my face. Hope you guys are doing well and that this information helps someone.
Some diagrams of permanent Implications of my procedure
So, you know my lip dropped and the septi depressor muscle was cut, but did you know that that muscle attaches to the nose and keeps it closer to the lip giving a more feminine shape? It cannot ever be rebuilt. So, for those of you considering rhinoplasty and don't want to end up like me. I'll show you my xrays of my nasal spine removal, and the implications of the septi muscle being cut. All of you know ENT's can get around the plastic surgery thing, But, this is to help you avoid what happened to me. Please do your research and remember, some photos being used on sites are over 15 years old and you could lose forever all expression in your face, like i did. Instead of what i consented to---the following happened to my face and consequently my life. Don't write to me and tell me to be happy or go do service work. I do more service than you know. I am still seeking solutions, but there are none for the lip. and the muscle movement. So, if you act or rely on your face for your brand, be careful. I believed the credentials on the site, which were not accurate. Now, my life is different. I'm trying to keep positive, but it's very difficult at the moment.
Instead of Augmentation of Bridge and widening of the tip like I wanted. I got the following. A drastic reduction, that no one seems to know if they can fix.
Removal of footplates
Removal of infratip
Removal of Lower Lateral Crura
Removal of top of bridge
Removal of Columella
Removal of Nasal spine
Removal of Caudal septum
Removal of skin of the columella
Removal of the mucosal lining
Tongue and Groove Procedure
Cut through the septi depressor muscles to drop the mouth and hinder expressions
Removal of chunks of nostrils
Dome suturing of the domes into a sharp “Michael Jackson” point
Removal of upper lateral cartilage
So dudes, that's where I'm at. Happy Monday! Hope you are all having a great time and not stuck in it like I am.
Happy Mother's Day
I was thinking this morning of who I used to be. I didn't have a care in the world. Along with that I found out my nasal sill and nasal platform were also amputated which changed the lip, the nasal shape which used to come out at the sides instead of inward, that is why It looks so pinched. If you hold up the nose (other Frankel people) and find that your nose and lip look like they used to, this might have been performed on you as well. It affects the midface too because there is no structure holding the nose anymore. I read about Dr. Menick being able to repair this, but it's like how many procedures can one person have undone?
marketing on this site
Let me start by saying i found both of these doctors through the marketing on realself. so, please be very careful.