Dr. Richards is absolutely the most technically skilled and artistic plastic surgeon and I am beyond thrilled with my cheek lift results! After consulting with several surgeons for over 12 months before choosing him, I realized his approach is very individually tailored and he makes the best choices for the patient’s specific bone and muscle structures, which is important to me. My cheeks were falling (I’m in my 40’s) which created nasolabial folds (that my kids were quick to point out to me), but I didn’t feel like I needed an entire facelift yet. Dr. Richards explained exactly what results to expect with my cheek lift surgery and he was very honest about which procedures that I didn’t need at this point, which I very much appreciate. I will definitely be going back to Dr. Richards for my future procedures and my friends are already consulting with him as well after seeing my results!
Dr. Mark Richards is the best! I have been a patient of Dr. Richards for nearly 10 years and have sent many friends and family members to him without hesitation. As a surgeon he is a genius, for injectibles he is a true artist and with BHRT he is a life-saver! On top of that he is a kind, caring MD who listens to your concerns, answers your questions and gives great results. His nurse, Janie is wonderful as is the rest of his office staff and esthetician. Highly recommend.
I have had a few consultation and I have chosen to go with a Doctor Mark Richard out of Rockville MD. He was very friendly precise and just awesome. Out of all my consults his experience was the best. I am scheduled to have my BA March 16th. I have decided to go with just a BA now. I am currently a very deflated saggy B/C cup. I am a candidate for a lift but my Doctor is going to give me 490 cc in each breast. I m going with the textured gummy bear, high profile. I think at my next visit I am going to ask for 550 cc. I'm 5 10 and I weigh 155. I think I can carry a full D with out them looking to huge for my chest. I'm so excited but nervous at the same time . My BF is very supportive and is my number fan during this process. Updated on 12 Mar 2016: I only have 4 days left and I am paid in full! I'm nervous and I'm having cold feet. I want to be excited but, I think I have seen so many boobies that I'm tired. Is this normal? Updated on 23 Mar 2016: Updated on 30 Mar 2016: I'm in love. So happy. Besides the burning sensation nipple sensitivity :) I'm loving it. Oh yeah and this nerve. My left boob is settling and the nerve is definitely alive. It's so painful that I sometimes have to push my boob off the nerve. But other than that. All joy and compliments.
Hi Everyone, Tomorrow at 0630 is my surgery. I won't lie, I am a little scared because once it's done, it's done. I was watching a few actual surgery video's to give me that true,realistic sense of what I'm in for tomorrow. I'm getting a pain pump which I hope helps. Not sure if I'll have to supplement with meds but I'm ready I guess for that too. Everyone looks so good when it's done. I'm more worried about post op pain and not making sure I look the way I hope too. I am small bones and thin and chose the saline teardrop shape with max volume of 300 cc. I really don't want large breast. I worked out a lot and I just want a nice shape and for them to not get in my way. My doc explained that the chance for CC goes down a lot using saline instead of silicone. Being older now, I want the most natural look possible and of course feel. There is a part of me that say's this is nuts and let it go, but I think that's my fear talking. Most of the ladies on here seem to have pretty good recovery and great results. I hope you can add me to the list. I'll update this as I can and give you the play by play. Well, wish me luck. I'll see you later tomorrow moring.Updated on 3 Apr 2013:Hi Girls Today is day1 post op. So much to say. First, my doc is awesom. He listens and did what I requested which was I wanted to be a full B or small C. I'm glad he didn't do cause I don't want huge breast. Ok, I was not nervous really when I showed up at the surgery center. My main concerns were post op pain. Once I got into the OR, I was asleep in like two seconds. This time around I wanted a an anit-nause patch and it worked like a charm! Last surgery I had, I was sick for almost two days, so no way I wanted to live that again. The next think I remember was waking up in recovery. I did get a pain pump because after viewing more acutal surgeries via U-tube, I knew I was in for a world of hurt! I'll have the pain pump on board until my follow up this Friday. I would consider this ladies, it's helping for sure. I did upon waking up got more pain meds. Last night was not great night for me. I literally had a hard time getting in bed and any movement, was killer. I took more pain meds and muscle relaxer. That is good stuff. I have to say, I am surprised I was in so much pain. It feels like deep pressure like an elephant sitting on my chest. Bit hard to breath normally, deeply becuase of this insane pressure. My doc put me in a bra before I woke up so the pics you'll see have that bra on. As soon as I get the go, I'll shoot more pics. I am feeling constipated which is a natural side effect of going under, but have stuff to help with that. It's hard to sit here and type. I feel like any movement is painful at this point. My entire rib cage feels this deep pressure and just touching my skin lightly, feels painful. Now this is just my experience. I've seen ladies on here say they had little pain but more pressure. So don't get all bent about it or let that scare you, Im super in touch with my body and feel every little pain. I hope to get more meds for this pressure in my chest (flexeril) . I only have two days left and hopefully that will help resolve this issues to some degree. Is this worth it, hard to tell at this point. I'm sure I'll love it once I get a look and feel less pain. I'll keep you posted write more later. Best of luck to all getting there BA today. Stay positive and make sure you have enough pain management on board...Updated on 4 Apr 2013:Day 2 under way. Still have a lot of pain and deep pressure in my chest. So far, I'm not liking anything about process. I am shocked to feel so much discomfort . Any movement is troublesome. I see the doc for follow up tomorrow and see what he thinks. I reason I'm so surprised about pain is I have a pIan up and I thought that would do but not so much. I still need pain meds. I can't imagine goi g back to work on Monday! More to come. Thanks for u r support and ideas.Updated on 4 Apr 2013:Hi All, Just wanted to update. Finally beginning to feel better today. This morning was rough but after speaking to my doc and the nurse, we decided to take me down to just Tylenal every 4 hours and to finish my muscle relaxer and the predisone. I have no clue if feeling better is just time or meds or what. I honestly don't care, I'm so happy to not be in terrible pain. Tomorrow is my follow up with my doc and I guess I'll get to see my breast for the first time. I get my pain pump taken out and stay with the OTC's. Wow, ladies. What an experience this has been. I've had moments over the last few days of thinking why on god's earth, would I do this to myself. I'm sure I'll love my new look soon and think it great. So I have mixed feelings today. It is cool to see and feel something bigger than what I had. I'll send my post op pics and you can see for yourselves. So day 2 almost gone come on day 3. Seems that most of you have stated that day 3 was a real turning point and you felt much better. I think that will be for me too. I get to take a shower tomorrow. No clue how I'm going to dry my hair. I have to practice for my return to work on Monday. Anyway, thanks for your excellent support and advise. This is a great site. Everyone is super honest and gives great little tidbits of advise. talk to you tommorrow after I see the doc.Updated on 5 Apr 2013:Hey Ladies So it's day 3 and I feel much better. Everyone was right about that even though I would have called anyone a lier yesterday morning. Saw the doc and took out my pain pump. It was the first time I got to see my new breasts and they are awesome! I'll like them more when they drop and get smaller. I think they're perfect for me. I had 300 cc saline under and I only wanted to be a full B. Right now I'm a super full C. My breasts feel hard as a rock and still have tightness in my chest but it is better. I've taken myself off the narcotics and only taking extra strength Tylenal. I feel a bit beat up and it doesn't help to be completly constipated! I'm working on that part and that will make me feel better for sure. I hope to sleep better tonight since I feel less intense pressure in my chest. Not an easy surgery ladies... this is the real deal and it hurts!! My PS said this morning that this is probably the worst surgery pain wise. No kidding right?! It feels weird to have all this breast. The last time I had boobs like this was when I was nursing my son!! My hope is to be that full be and get back to my life in the gym. I think that's all for now. I'm tired since I didn't sleep great last night. I am a bit worried to head back to work this Monday only in that I hope nobody is really that interested in my boobs but you know who people talk... Oh well, they look amazing. Here are a few new pics...Happy FridayUpdated on 6 Apr 2013:Morning Everyone, today is day 4 and I'm definately feeling better. However, I seem to have developed a rash from waring the bandaou my PS wants me to ware under this nasty looking bra for god knows how many more weeks to help control swelling and hopefully, help the implants drop some. Anyone else get itchy from waring this thing? Still having a hard time sleeping due to not being able to find any real comfortable position even with tons of pillows. I'm only taking Tylenol now and I feel more pressure and the weight of how hard these implants are. Wow, I would not have been able to guess how this would feel by looking at all the pics everyone has put on here. Honestly, it feels crappy and unnatural, hard as a rock. Please tell me this is going to change!!! I feel pretty wiped out but at least I'm not in pain like the first two days. That was NOT fun. So I am mending as you all have described so nicely and hopefully, right on track. I go back for my week follow up this Thursday. I can't wait to feel that softer more natural breast. What a weird expereince this has been. Let's face it ladies, it cost big bucks to keep looking good as we age! It ain't pretty but taking care of ourselves for our selves makes for a happier mom, partner, friend, worker.... To life!Updated on 7 Apr 2013:Hi Everyone, Today is day 5 post op and I feel like I have bowling balls in my chest. Funny thing is, to the eye, it's doesn't look that big but feels heavy, hard and huge! I hope this will change over time, cause I'm not liking this feeling. I still feel wipedout. Sleeping is still hard and had to take a half a pain pill last night. I'm sure like everyone one here, the doc stated not to lift your arms above your head for some number of weeks right? Well I was trying to dry my hair a few minutes ago and have been trying very hard to not lift my arms to high and I heard like a sloshing sorta noise when I lifted my arm like just mid way?! I'm kinda freaked out. Has anyone had this experience? I could heard the implant swish a bit. Not that it moved but I could hear like it was making a noise as I moved my arm up?!!!! So of course I did all I could to not lift my arm. I'll call the doc tomorrow just to make sure he I didn't mess this up and he can check me out. I may be over reacting but they were pretty clear about not lifting your arms over your head for anywhere from 4-6 weeks!!! Otherwise, I just feel tired, bowel movements are back but I feel totally bloated! Just all around wiped out I guess. I go back to work tomorrow and I wish I had a few more days to regroup. No real pain, just feel huge, and pressure. I'm sure when this all settles down, I'll love my new look. Going to try to do some light walking today. I can't stand that I can't work out, not that I feel like it right now. But it's nice out and but need to get moving. Thanks for your thoughts and support. Hope all who had they're BA the last few days are feeling ok.Updated on 9 Apr 2013:Hey Gals, Well today is day 7 and I've been back to work for two days now. I feel super self conscience because my boobs are huge! I have to say, I don't like this feeling and can't wait for them to shrink. I know there is a lot of swelling of course and can only pray this changes. I never wanted to have big boobs just a more filled out look so to be honest, right now I am NOT happy. Now that may sound weird to a lot of you but I've been an athlete my entire life and I can't stand really big breast as they get in the way of how I want to live my life. So I'm kinda depressed at how large I look. I go for my first follow up this Thursday and my PS better tell me these things are gonna get smaller cause I don't want to look like this! Don't mean to get all negative but this is just not me, not now anyway. I'm still uncomfortable but moving around ok. I walked in the neighborhood yesterday night to get some exercise but not briskly. It felt good to move my ass! Am I the only one who feels like this? I haven't seen anyone post negative feelings about their new breasts, so feel free to jump in, it's ok to not feel like screaming from the rooftops. More to come. I hope this swelling goes down and I'm the full B cup I wanted and not this huge C (maybe bigger, who knows) cuz it sucks.Updated on 13 Apr 2013:Hi Ladies, Sorry I've been a stranger. I am on daY 12 post op and things are getting better. I had my first follow up this week and had my stiches removed. I guess I'm still trying to get my mind around these huge jugs I have! I've been a little A cup my entire life except when I was nursing and it's just a shock to see myself like this. My PS did an incredible job as always and they are beautiful. I post more pics later, but have mommy duty and saturday chores to do first. I'm still sore and uncomfortable to some degree, but no real pain anymore. This first week back at work was sooo weird! I tired to ware stuff that had like patterns or anything to not detect these huge breasts I walked in with. Sleep is still not great. I wish I felt comfortable but not just yet. Still taking 4, tylenol 500mg at night which does help. I got the go to begin to resume some of my workout activities, but only gentle cardio like powerwalking, elliptical, treadmill with no arm movement. PS said I could do ab work but too. I'm a bit de-conditioned from a back injury prior to my BA, so it's gonna be a challenge to get back my super awesome body, but I'm up for it when I get the go. Good luck to eveyone who is just at day 2-5 post op. It does get better but let's face it girls, it ain't pretty that first week, it's hell. Enjoy this beautiful day if you can. Have an attitude of gratitude that we were able to afford this BA as many can't. I am broke now but that will change again too. Have a great day everyone and thanks for posting all your thoughts and kind wishes to all :)Updated on 21 Apr 2013:Hi Ladies, Well, it's day 19 post surgery. I feel much, much better. I still have swelling of course and my breast still feel like they're riding way to high. Went to post op PS visit. He said they looked great and will get better and better. So I think I'm finally getting more used to these new huge things and once they settle and the swelling goes down, I'm sure I'll just love them. I did notice that my right nipple is a bit lower than the left, but after looking at my pre-surgery pictures and it looked the same. I guess I never noticed before but having them exaggerated from the implants, I notice. My PS measured and said they the right is a few millemeters lower and if a guy mentioned it MUST be gay (ha!) It was funny and there's really nothing that can be done. He said when I was nursing, most women favor one breas over the other, I thought I was trying to nusring on both sides but who knows. Anyway, I'm excited to think of what I can now ware and fill up like halter tops and dresses and just look good in well, just about anything now!!! Awesome to think of beach week this year! Thanks to all for your support. Oh, some one had mentioned a pain pump this past week. I had the pain pump and thank god I did. It helped so much but did not make me pain free. Even wtih the pump, you need pain med coverage. I don't know how you ladies have done this without a pain management system. I would have been beyond miserable. To life everyone! Be brave, thank god we have been blessed to be able to afford to do this life changing surgery. I feel so grateful that I could as a single mom, it's not an easy choice when I could have done a lot for my son and used it to get things fixed on the house. Put I'll save again and it's ok.
The procedure went well with nary a bump...Came back to have tubes removed about a week later. That went well also considering a little complication (no fault of the dr, we hit a vein or artery and it started gushing. Dr Richards was so calm...instructed his assistant and me what to do...and he nipped in the bud! There was swelling and bruising for a few weeks and mild pain at the beginning. Nothing too bad. I did look like an alien though! My kids took pictures! AFter about 4 weeks, it was almost non-noticible except by those who knew me well. AFter 6-8 weeks, I looked fabulous! Would I do it again? YOu betcha! I am making an appointment with him tomorrow. I could probably hold off a few years, but it is better to have a procedure done before it is too obvious that you need one.
I had BHRT pellet therapy here and it was a disaster. Hurt for weeks and months afterward and did not help my worst menopausal symptoms. Also took no responsibility for poor outcome as other reviews mention. Under no circumstances would I allow this Dr to touch me with a scalpel. Janie his nurse seems like the best part of the office.
Nasal bone caved in because of his aggressive and poor technique. He refused to admit that anything was wrong after. He also ruined my breathing. I've since had a revision to restore my appearance somewhat. I had initially come in just for a septoplasty to improve my breathing, but he pushed a full rhinoplasty on me, even though I had a nice nose that no one ever commented on. In the end, he destroyed both my breathing and my appearance. He never discussed any risks with me. The incompetence on every level was astounding. I wouldn't trust him to do any procedure.
I had my surgery 4 years ago and still suffering and regret it every time I see myself in the mirror. The day after the surgery I noticed my face doesn't look right. First Richards told me my face was uneven because of the swelling due to the surgery and the swelling would go down with time and patience. He continuously kept telling me my face would get better. At 6 months he told me I should get fat graft to fix unevenness (how convenient) and year after the surgery he said to get another surgery to fix all his other mistakes. My original problem which was excess skin was worse from swelling but after surgery I had two big scars on my face and ears that looked so bad. I had sever pain for a year and face that looked uneven and droopy and still is. I don't have the money to fix it but I also got scared to do another surgery as my skin is so thin after the surgery and lost its elasticity. Mark Richards didn't care about me only wanted my hard earned money and he didn't even offered to fix his mistake. It was like I talked to two different businesses before and after my surgery. surgeon and the assistant. They told me all the nice stuff nothing that would change my mind, anything required to trust them and just till the payment went through. But after the surgery, right away they disappeared, Mark Richards wasn't even available to remove the stitches and when I called them after surgery, they told me they are going on a vacation and I shouldn't call them for a week. They left me in pain and fear all alone. I put so much trust in them and this is how I was treated while they were on vacation with my money and I was suffering and crying every day. It's been a long time and I moved to a small town somewhere no one knows me and less people staring at me. I never thought I would be in this situation, I didn't go to South America to get a cheap surgery but I do get a better care in spa and hair salon for fraction of the money I paid this guy, and they do exactly what I want and I get my money back if I don't like something but My face has been ripped apart violently and got permanent nerve damage and no one cared. Lots of money, time, tears wasted.
I met Mark Richards for another issue but he and his assistant Laura, were pushing me to get a face and neck lift at a young age. When I said my neck and lower face is as young and firm as it can be, they said that's the only way surgeries done. Never done or seen someone having surgery, believed him but I couldn't get my neck cut for no reason. Now after talking to many doctors I know what I was told, was so wrong. I learned this in the process that your can't trust anyone in this world, not even those who get paid to take care of their patients. Receptionist was fine but not knowledgeable else I think she would warn me, it's the doctor and assistant that I couldn't trust. They claimed, for security reasons they won't keep credit card info, but when I called the receptionist, she said she has all my info in file including credit card (I changed my credit card after that). Couldn't trust doctor or his staff. Only receptionist was fine and responsive othets were like typical sales people without any sense responsibility or care.
I had a rhino last year where he did exactly what I told him not to do. He screwed up my face and pretended like it was a swelling issue. 12 months later I'm booking a revision with an actual face doc. DON'T GO TO HIM! Only after the surgery he admitted that he couldn't do what I had requested, so he screwed things up instead. I would have paid him twice his fee to not have done it.
The following is my personal opinion: I have used vaser since 2004 when it first became available. It has allowed me to contour areas during procedures that the other 2 methods do not allow. Why? Because Vaser is selective for fat cells and leaves vessels and nerves and lymphatics for the most part undamaged IF the Vaser is used properly! Simply speaking: 1. Infuse an adrenaline containing solution into the fat 2. Let it sit for a minimum of 10 minutes! 3. Insert titanium probe that vibrates at around 40,000 times a second to create ultrasonic waves that are maximally absorbed by the fat and separate the cells from each other. 4. Use Vaser's Ventex cannulas which do not tear the tissues in order to suck out the emulsified fat liquid created by #3. 5. Place patient in a compression garment. Other methods can rip and tear vessels and nerves and soft tissues, and in the case of Smart Lipo, burn them as well. The fat from Vaser Lipo Selection is very suitable for Brazilian Butt lift - the injection of the strained fat into the buttock muscles for excellent long term augmentation!
The following is my opinion. I have lectured on this very point to plastic surgeons at international conferences. The Mid-Face Cheek lift is my favorite procedure due to its elegance and power in transforming the facial shape from aged deflation to curved youth. As we age,almost all of us lose facial fat. The pockets of fat in the face are not united, but rather separated by thin walls of collagen. As they go horizontally across our face in our youth, deflation results in the more vertical folds we see in age. High mid facial curves with a short lower eyelid vertical height is the characteristic of youth. The tightened flat cheeks and elongated lower eyelids of a face-lift that ignores the cheek lift is a sad sight to behold! Having praised the procedure done correctly - there is nothing it will do for your upper eyelids. So, the options for effective mid-face rejuvenation of the cheeks and lower eyelids number 2: 1. Re-inflate each pocket of fat with a substance such as Sculptra, OR 2. If there is enough remaining fat in the fallen face, elevate the fat pads back to their original position through a Mid-Face lift. Either way, the lower lids need to be addressed either with a resurfacing laser to shrink the skin, or a skin excision of the excess lower lid skin only. Your question regards #2. I make incisions in the temporal (temple area) scalp and an incision inside the upper lip on either side of the mouth. Staying just on top of the mid face bones, the overlying soft tissue is re-suspended upward with sutures that dissolve in 6 months. The tissues heal to the bone in the elevated position and stay there until many years more of fat deflation occur. My patients find this procedure to be not painful and extremely effective. The "downside" if there is one is that the cheeks swell creating a mildly "alien" appearance for a variable amount of time... usually less than 2 weeks. It may take up to a couple months before the patient feels comfortable with the results. By 3 months post-operatively, about 95% of my patients tell me it was the best procedure they have ever seen!
The following is my opinion. I have lectured on this very point to plastic surgeons at international conferences. The Mid-Face Cheek lift is my favorite procedure due to its elegance and power in transforming the facial shape from aged deflation to curved youth. As we age,almost all of us lose facial fat. The pockets of fat in the face are not united, but rather separated by thin walls of collagen. As they go horizontally across our face in our youth, deflation results in the more vertical folds we see in age. High mid facial curves with a short lower eyelid vertical height is the characteristic of youth. The tightened flat cheeks and elongated lower eyelids of a face-lift that ignores the cheek lift is a sad sight to be hold! So, the options for effective rejuvenation number 2: 1. Re-inflate each pocket of fat with a substance such as Sculptra, OR 2. If there is enough remaining fat in the fallen face, elevate the fat pads back to their original position through a Mid-Face lift. Your question regards #2. I make incisions in the temporal (temple area) scalp and an incision inside the upper lip on either side of the mouth. Staying just on top of the mid face bones, the overlying soft tissue is re-suspended upward with sutures that dissolve in 6 months. The tissues heal to the bone in the elevated position and stay there until many years more of fat deflation occur. My patients find this procedure to be not painful and extremely effective. The "downside" if there is one is that the cheeks swell creating a mildly "alien" appearance for a variable amount of time... usually less than 2 weeks. It may take up to a couple months before the patient feels comfortable with the results. By 3 months post-operatively, about 95% of my patients tell me it was the best procedure they have ever seen!
The following is my opinion. I have lectured on this very point to plastic surgeons at international conferences. Also, to clear the air - I agree with you about the extensive recovery from a thorough long lasting face lift. I believe that "mini" lifts have "mini" results and "mini" longevity to go with their "mini" recovery and still significant expense. The Mid-Face Cheek lift is my favorite procedure due to its elegance and power in transforming the facial shape from aged deflation to curved youth. As we age,almost all of us lose facial fat. The pockets of fat in the face are not united, but rather separated by thin walls of collagen. As they go horizontally across our face in our youth, deflation results in the more vertical folds we see in age. High mid facial curves with a short lower eyelid vertical height is the characteristic of youth. The tightened flat cheeks and elongated lower eyelids of a face-lift that ignores the cheek lift is a sad sight to be hold! So, the options for effective rejuvenation number 2: 1. Re-inflate each pocket of fat with a substance such as Sculptra, OR 2. If there is enough remaining fat in the fallen face, elevate the fat pads back to their original position through a Mid-Face lift. Your question regards #2. I make incisions in the temporal (temple area) scalp and an incision inside the upper lip on either side of the mouth. Staying just on top of the mid face bones, the overlying soft tissue is re-suspended upward with sutures that dissolve in 6 months. The tissues heal to the bone in the elevated position and stay there until many years more of fat deflation occur. My patients find this procedure to be not painful and extremely effective. The "downside" if there is one is that the cheeks swell creating a mildly "alien" appearance for a variable amount of time... usually less than 2 weeks. It may take up to a couple months before the patient feels comfortable with the results. By 3 months post-operatively, about 95% of my patients tell me it was the best procedure they have ever seen!
The following is my opinion. I have lectured on this very point to plastic surgeons at international conferences. The MF lift is my favorite procedure due to its elegance and power in transforming the facial shape from aged deflation to curved youth. As we age,almost all of us lose facial fat. The pockets of fat in the face are not united, but rather separated by thin walls of collagen. As they go horizontally across our face in our youth, deflation results in the more vertical folds we see in age. High mid facial curves with a short lower eyelid vertical height is the characteristic of youth. The tightened flat cheeks and elongated lower eyelids of a face-lift that ignores the cheek lift is a sad sight to be hold! So, the options for effective rejuvenation number 2: 1. Re-inflate each pocket of fat with a substance such as Sculptra, OR 2. If there is enough remaining fat in the fallen face, elevate the fat pads back to their original position through a Mid-Face lift. Your question regards #2. I make incisions in the temporal (temple area) scalp and an incision inside the upper lip on either side of the mouth. Staying just on top of the mid face bones, the overlying soft tissue is re-suspended upward with sutures that dissolve in 6 months. The tissues heal to the bone in the elevated position and stay there until many years more of fat deflation occur. My patients find this procedure to be not painful and extremely effective. The "downside" if there is one is that the cheeks swell creating a mildly "alien" appearance for a variable amount of time... usually less than 2 weeks. It may take up to a couple months before the patient feels comfortable with the results. By 3 months post-operatively, about 95% of my patients tell me it was the best procedure they have ever seen!