“Don't Ever Do Fraxel to "Delay" a Facelift - Seattle, WA”

I answered you in another thread- we even have the same "sun worshipping" history and i too am fair skinned (although thanks to fraxel have lots of brown and red spots)- perhaps that is why we are having similar results?

What damage are you experiancing?

Remarkable dryness, misshapen pores on my cheeks (those short diagonal lines other people report), and larger pores/rougher texture in general, as well as ruddiness. Overall, I've lost my "glow." I wouldn't say I look hideous, but I sure as heck don't look better than I did before the Fraxels! Had my last (3rd) Fraxel on 1/06/10, and the quality of my skin, in looks and in feel, appears to be getting worse. Also have a new broken capillary on the side of my nose, and what looks like emerging dark spots on my cheeks near my ears. Am going to a new dermatologist next Monday to seek treatment. Exfoliation and intense moisturizing with something like BiaFine might help. I'm hoping! My fear is that the damage is permanent, but it may not be. It seems to be a crapshoot--while many women here report negative results, it seems just as many dodged the bullet. Not sure which one I'll be!

Bombshell ~ I'm thinking that the damage is permanent, but maybe improvalbe (is "improvalbe" even a word)? I had my one and only Fraxel done on Dec 9 (a day before my 40th birthday). So, I'm one month ahead of you. I think my face may look a little better than it did a month ago. The pores seemed to have calmed down a bit (i.e. they're not as obvious). Also, some of the lines seem to be getting better. One thing that did go away was the redness. I would get really red on and off, especially if I cried (which was a lot). That doesn't seem to be happening any more. I am doing a treatment called Obagi NuDerm. It's all topical product, but I think it may be working a bit. I'm starting to see the "glow" once in a while. It's an 18 week treatment (bleaching and exfoliating) and I'm only on week 5. People say that "wow" results show up around week 8-10. I'll keep you posted. Let me know how your treatment goes. I'm interested in hearing about any thing that helps, even a little. You and I have the exact same damage. I, however, have noticed that my skin is much more loose around my jowls and neck. (Don't worry. If you don't have that already, you probably won't get it. The loosness was something that occured on me within the first few weeks.) This I know I can remedy with a minilift should it get any worse, and that's something that I'm completely willing to do. In fact, I'm pretty much planning on it. Take care, and let's keep in touch.

Going to the Derm on Monday. Will let ya know how she hooks me up. For sure, we'll keep in touch. Your story gives me hope that even if I can't get back to where I was before Fraxel, I'll at least be able to look & feel better than I do now. Sounds like others are having some luck with Retin-A micro, too, to turn over the skin surface cells. I am going to ask the derm just how far this damage can go under the surface, and if it's permanent. I know you can get permanent sun damage, and permanent scars from various burns, but I know nothing about skin-resurfacing laser damage. Will share whatever I learn. She is NOT the doc who did the treatment. I suspect that doc would just do a "cover your ass" treatment and not really help me much.

Hey, lady! (Beann) Just got back from the derm. Turns out the rough reddish patches under my eyes are broken capillaries. I was angered to hear this, since I most certainly DID NOT have them pre-Fraxel:Restore, but it could be worse, I suppose. She gave me a bleaching cream (called "Blanche") to use on these red undereye patches, and on the pigment spots that I had before (which Fraxel did nothing to help). ONLY on those spots, once a day before bed, before moisturizer. She also gave me a super-hydrating exfoliating moisturizer to help with the dryness/redness overall. Twice a day, over the Blanche before bed. She (hilariously) recommended laser treatment for the broken capillaries. She said to give my skin several weeks to calm down, to see how the broken capillaries look before doing the laser, but I am so laser-shy now, I seriously doubt I'll even bother. (IPL didn't do squat for my dark spots, and Fraxel not only didn't affect the dark spots it GAVE me the broken capillaries!). So, that's where I'm at. Since I only got three out of four Fraxels in my package, I may ask this new derm if it's okay to have the original doc do glycolic peels or microderm, to use up the value of the 4 Fraxel pacakge. It's about $750 worth of treatment I didn't get, so I hope the original doc will do this, or some other non-terrifying treatment, to get me my money's worth. My friend who hadn't seen me since I did the first Fraxel said she didn't think I looked different, ie, worse, so that's something. Let's cross our fingers for improvement and keep looking for answers. And tell everyone we know: DO NOT DO FRAXEL!!!

Hey girl! (Bombshell. Gotta love that user-name.) I had some broken caps before fraxel, but I have more now. I've heard horror stories about IPL, so you're lucky that didn't damage you too. I have heard of one laser that is for broken caps called VeriLite. I'm going to look into it, and MAYBE consider it down the line. I first want to know how long it's been done and if there's ANY bad effects. I'm paronoid of lasers too. I'm suspicious if a bleaching cream would work for broken caps as these are viens under the skin. Hope it works for you. I'm doing Obagi right now which includes bleaching; hasn't helped my broken caps. Let me know if it works. One thing that I know helps the appearance of broken caps is vitamin K. It's also good for dark under-eye circles. I know it works cause I have spider veins on my legs and got this stuff from Walgreens that really helps to diminish them. It also works on my face, but I want to get something that is made for the face, not the legs. It may work even better. I know that Revsion carries a vitamin K serum that is intended for that use. (Check it out here: http://www.revisionskincare.com/) I'm going to get it soon, and try it out. Problem is that it's an on-going treatment, not a cure. It sounds like they told you that you have dry skin too. I have never been told I had dry skin until after Fraxel. I was told this by two estiticans, three plastic surgeons, and one derm. I'm really starting to thing that that is what is causing most (if not all) of these lines that we have. I have noticed the lines on other people too, not just fraxel patients. So, it must be something that can happen naturally. Like really dehydrated skin. I'm "talking" to another girl on another site that has similiar "lines" as me. Check out these pics and tell me whether or not they resemble what you have. Here's the link: {edited}. Go down to the fifth to the last post of the thread and you'll see the pics. (I'm not sure you can get to the site, though, if you're not a member.) Yeah, all my friends don't see a difference either. But I can for sure. I FN hate that this happened!! Keep me posted with any new news, hopefully good news. My Obagi treatment seems to be going well, just slow.

Edited by Sharon: Please share links via private contact.

Boo! Can't see the link! Won't open, but would like to see. Could you email it to me if I give you an address? Anyhoo, my friend who works for one of the la-di-da Beverly Hills derms is sending me a bunch of product to help with the dryness/topical damage--some BiaFine among them, which is what they give to people with burns. She def said to NOT do any glycolics or microderms so soon after the Fraxel, since I'm red and irritated. So I'm gonna hold off. She's also skeptical of bleaching cream on the broken caps--she also doesn't like "Blanche," so she's sending another brand, but I will use the bleaching cream on the dark spots from the birth control pills--won't help on the under eye area, so why bother? Ya know what? When I had the IPLs last year, the doc who does my Botox said, "Your skin is starting to look dry..." Gee, wonder why?! We'll see if I ever trust IPL enough to have it used right under my eyes, knowing what I know now. :P

NOW I see the post you mean. Let me set up an account so I can peak. Yep, I am THAT nosy. :P More when I get a proper look...

OK, saw the pix. Jeez, that poor kitten--she must feel pretty stressed. Her posts are full of despair. Anyway, I have no idea how she got so close up on her skin with her camera--I would not say my pores are as pronounced as hers, however, they are that same shape (lines, not circles anymore), esp. on my cheeks, the closer you get to my nose. If I could photograph myself that close-up, I don't know if my skin would look the same as hers. I'm thinking not quite. The b*tch of it all is that I was a Goth as a teen so I never, ever took sun, I never sunbathed past the age of 15 (and scarcely before then) and I have worn sunscreen religiously as an adult. I did Fraxel to "protect my greatest feature"--my skin. Bwahahahahaha. Oh, the irony! In my case, I think the capillaries may have burst during the post-treatment swelling, cuz mine was soooooooo intense. When I say I looked like a pink pumpkin, believe it! So, for now, it's creams and soothing for me, then, maybe if/when my skins chills out a bit, I can consider some light topical peels and/or IPL under my eyes. But then, I"m thinking a bag over my head might be cheaper. And easier. :)

I know your pissed about your sitch, but your posts totally make me laugh. I can just hear you "talking". I can tell you're a writter. I wish I was goth in HS. Instead I was a head-bangeing sun-worshiper. (My Softmore boyfriend had a blue mohawk. Ahhh . . . memories.) I grew up is SoCal near the beach, and loved to just lay in the sun all day. (Oh, was I supossed to be in class today?) Then in my 20s it was the huge parties at the Colorado River. What a hoot, and a ton of sun! I'm pretty white naturally (100% German) with a few natural freckels, so now that I'm 40 I have lots of pigmentation. Not so much on my face, but my chest and back are full of freckles. I have now finally sworn off the sun. Took me long enough. I constantly try to tell my 17 year-old daughter what I know, but talking to a teenager is like talking to . . . there's nothing like talking to a teen-ager! :) The lines on the pic of that girl (Sadie) are the same as mine, however I don't have as many. Aso, I can't seem to get a picture of mine that really shows up that good. I'm hoping for her that's it's not worse in person. I feel so bad for her. At least we know what caused ours. She didn't have a procedure. That fact actually gives me a little hope; knowing that it happens naturally means that something can probably be done to help it. I'm getting closer and closer to being convinced it's all about the dryness/dehydration. That's got to be totally repairable. Sadie is going to her derm tomorrow, so I'll give you the scoop on what her derm says. One bit of good news . . . I'm just now starting my 6th week of my 18-week long Obagi treatment. I'm finishing out the first, and worst, "cycle". Now it's time that I should really start seeing improvement. Today in my car, I noticed a small patch of skin that was flaking and the skin underneath is beautiful. Smooth and soft looking. I've had lots of flaking these last 6 weeks, but the "new" skin didn't look much different . . . until today. I will be estatic if the rest of my face gets to the same stage. And if it works for me, it should work for you. It will also get rid of your brown spots for sure. If you're interested, I can give you another site to look at (no, really, I do have a life!) of another lady that did Obagi. She had tons of pigmentation and her skin turned out really nice. Even if you don't want to start Obagi now (which I wouldn't blame you), it may be another option for you. I've been looking into a ton of different things, treatments, costmetics, etc. I'll keep you in the know of what I find/learn. Have you had your 64oz of water today?! :)

I'm glad you enjoy my posts! In return, I must compliment your positive attitude--you are pursuing improvement and remaining hopeful, which helps me a lot. Interesting about your peel. Keep me posted PLEASE! My friend in LA said that once my skin quiets down a bit, she may set me up with a Cosmoderm peel. If you and I can exfoliate away at least a decent share of this damage with peels, then that'd be great. I'd love to hear more updates as you notice changes in your skin. I'm only on day 2 with my new moisturizer, so no news here. I think the Biafine might really turn some things over, since it's what they give burn victims to keep enough moisture on their skin to slough off burned skin and regenerate new. And I do believe that we did get burned. I'm no expert, but I'm reading that this laser (allegedly) directly affects skin moisture--which is partly why you can't get facial fillers (which are, obviously, largely liquid) on the same day as Fraxel. Don't quote me on that, tho. But yeah: We is dried out. But far from dried-up. ;)

You can't say that the negative results get worse. My skin has actually improved in the last month. I know I won't be able to repair some of what happened, and it's possible that more damage is to come, but it's not for sure that it's not repairable. My skin texture has improved a lot. I had lines on my face that have gotten much less noticable and my pores are not as large. However some issues have not improved. In any case, I refuse to go through my days without hope. This Fraxel is so unknown. Nobody knows what exactly it will do. If you look at the differant posts on this site you will find that there are damages that are completely different from eachother. One woman, God bless her, got horrible open sores, while others got lines, and some got sagging, or scars, or larger pores, or burns. Some of the damage is similiar, but some is intirely different. So, we can have hope that it's going to get better, and not worse. If nothing else, HAVE HOPE ladies! :)

Tried ~ Thank you! That is the best advice I have gotten yet. I will look into this test for certain. Thank you again! The worst part about this whole Fraxel deal is not knowing what lies ahead. I would be much better, emotionally, if I knew. Even if it wasn't good news . . . just to know. I agree about not doing anything else until time reveals the truth. All three plastic surgeons that I went to after my Fraxel recommended some other kind of laser to remedy my damage. NO FN WAY! I'll stick with what I have. The only thing I will consider in the future is a facelift because of my now sagging skin.

Beann - I am so glad you feel a bit better! I was considering Fraxel because I have discolourations on my skin. (Thanks to the honest posts from yourself and others I now consider the risks too high.) The laser depth and aggressive ablative nature of Fraxel worried me, so I first wanted to find out how deep the discolourations go under my skin. I did some internet research and that's how I found out about the Woods Lamp etc. The rudimentary technology for under-the-skin imaging has been around since about 1903 but I am sure that it has evolved into high-tech equipment and digital imaging software by now!! I think it could be a really, really useful diagnostic tool for you just to find out where you are at and to know where to start. It is an excellent way to get a 'baseline' so you don't have to fret over your face all the time wondering if it is getting worse or getting better. You will have actual measurements to work with that can be compared in a series of tests, say six months apart. I know that constant checking for improvement and the uncertainty of what to do next can be really stressful! Also, if you decide to try any further treatment(s), then your measured baseline can be compared in another test after any further treatment and you will know if it actually worked or not. I am not sure how available or expensive these types of tests are but if you find out anything I would love to hear from you. You are very wise to take things slowly and not to rush into anything. Cheers, K

I could not agree more, but not only is the FDA failing to ban these treatments, it is actually approving them!!! I share your sentiment that this industry has become an unregulated runaway train (wreck) and the whole thing just beggars belief. I too am completely shocked and the more I learn, the more disappointed I become. Whatever happened to the tenet that underpins the practice of medicine: First, do no harm????????

It *might* change if there were enough media coverage/pressure on the FDA/manufacturer of Fraxel. I'm a reporter and may take up the cause, even though neither science nor consumer complaint writing is my bailiwick. Hmmm. I may refer the idea to someone more qualified. It is pretty disgusting. All of us are afraid we're damaged for life. I know for sure that only medical intervention (IPL) will get rid of the broken capillaries that Fraxel caused under my eyes--and that's getting off easy compared to some people!!!

Beauty used to be a stroke of luck. All these new techniques were invented to make beauty achievable to anyone. Only now it's more about luck than ever.