Blepharoplasty Confusion - Festoons and Lasers - Philadelphia, PA

Hi cshcdi,
Can you please tell who was your doctor. I live in Frisco, Tx. I would love to do lower bleph. Thanks a lot!

Dear realselfjc33, could you please answer some questions for me? I really need help. I never had a visible festoon until I had Juvederm injected in the hollows of both eyes. I had it dissolved, and now the festoon is very visible. It is an oval shape, and part was next to my nose, and extended into my mid-cheek area. A plastic surgeon looked at it and moved it to a highter position by putting Radiesse underneath it to raise it. After he did this is swelled up to the size up a plum and needed over fifty saline injections to reduce it's size. Now it looks like a huge eye bag underneath my eye and it sits on top of the bony ridge underneath the eye. I was wondering how long it took to set up an appointment for your treatment. Also, does the tissue remain but just become softer so there is no indentions in your face? I've read some about his procedure with the articles on the internet. How long did the procedure take? Do you know of any other doctors that do this procedure and what state they are located? How long did it take to recover to where no sign of surgery was visible, or was there some discoloration in the area of the festoon after recovery?

Did he leave any outside scarring on your face or was everything done internally? It seems like every doctor that I've seen, does the external incision for the Blepharoplasty, this is why I think I will stick with Dr. Scheiner.

I had no scarring, but an indention where too much tissue was lasered off, and now will need filler for the rest of my life to fill it in. Luckily there is a new filer called Voluma that is supposed to last for two years for more. I haven't tried it as of yet but probably will.

Hello, how long did you have to stay in Tampa after your surgery? I have called Dr. Scheiner's office and will be speaking to them this week about having the procedure. Would you please let me know how you feel about the surgery and the results?

I had many problems after the surgery, that were not evident right away. I had to stay for 10 days, which was an agreed upon requirement before the surgery. I didn't want to stay that long but I did want the follow-up appointments which turned out to be very rushed and brief. Sometimes only 5 minutes and before they even opened for normal hours. Over all the lasered areas, I developed a bunch of small white cysts that were very small, but bothersome to me. There were about 50 under each eye and didn't completely go away for eight months. I notified the doctor of this but he wouldn't comment on it or prescribe any medication. He also had trouble removing one of the stiches, after the surgery, and it created a wound right next to my eye. It took 15 minutes to remove and he said it would be simple to remove them. It wouldn't heal, and in the wound developed a large white bump that had a white liquid in it. It was able to be needled out, but then it grew back again. After the second time having it needled out, it never came back and the area finally healed. After about three months, my skin started to wrinkle horribly and was very dry in the lasered areas. No ointments would help it. Not even Vaseline, or Acquaphor. Finally, I found out that rubbing extra virgin olive oil, on it, everyday for a month, helped get my skin back to normal in the lasered areas. I had surgery for festoons, but they were not true festoons. I never had lumps prior to Juvederm under my eyes, and showed the doctor photos from before Juvederm and there were no lumps. I told Dr. Scheiner about this, and was wondering that if the tissue was lasered off would there be permanent indentions when the filler dissolved. I asked him if we could try hyaluronidase before the surgery to see if the lumps would go down so he could get a more accurate idea of the problem. He said it wouldn't be necessary and he knew how to make it work. I trusted him even though what he said didn't make sense because I was so desperate for help. I didn't really feel the doctor paid attention to my legitimate concern about the filler causing the lumps. Now, I have two indentions were the filler lumps were, and one is very large and needs either a fat transfer, or temporary fix with a long lasting filler like Voluma. It is currently very disfiguring. I've been trying to get into contact with Dr. Scheiner, for a follow-up appointment, about the indention, and haven't had any luck with a response or getting an appointment. I emailed photos of the indentions, which were very visible and the doctor claimed to not be able to see them in the photos, even though everyone else can clearly see them showing up in the photos. Initially, his secretary told me he would see me for a follow-up, but never got back with me after repeated emails requesting a follow-up. They keep ignoring me and after 17 months, still no follow-up and over $10,000 spent on the surgeries which is probably the highest cost for the procedures I had done in the entire U.S. You would think that would be worth a follow-up appointment. It's almost like he is intentionally avoiding me because of the major error in judgement and deformity I experienced. I guess he just wants another doctor to correct it and wants be to go away for good. I don't really feel he has a great attitude and doesn't really listen very well to his patients. If I don't hear from him soon, it may lead to some very negative feedback comments. Needless to say, I'm very disappointed by doctor who claimed to be the best laser surgeon, and best doctor, in the entire United States, along with his entire staff saying that over and over. They kept telling me how helpful, and honest, he is. He told me nothing has ever gone wrong with any procedure that he has ever done, which is very surprising, but on the consent form it lists over 50 possible complications. Indentions were not listed as a possible complication, but everything besides that. Of course, I would be the first one who had any complications according to him. If you are getting laser surgery for filler complications, you should really be cautious about it, and also ask a lot of questions and get answers for them, and not just be brushed off and pay the consequences like I have. If he would be willing to help correct his error I wouldn't be as upset about the situation. I cancelled one of the procedures I had to pay in advance for for upper eyelid surgery which I didn't need because no filler traveled to the upper eyelids and they looked perfectly fine. They told me he always charges for that surgery and 90% of laser patients get the upper eyelid revision surgery. When he looked at my eyelids he agreed they didn't need anything, so I requested a refund and all of his employees kept telling me it's still going to be the same exact price, so I was never issued a credit for the cancelled procedure. I inquired about that several times as well and they told me it still comes out to the same exact amount a pre-paid for. In addition, Dr. Scheiner required so many tests including bloodwork, EKG, etc. etc. prior to the surgery. I had to pay over $2,000 for tests before he would accept me as a patient. The whole thing was very expensive for hotel costs and travel as well. I spent over $15,000 in total on the whole ordeal.

Wow, amazing that he is acting like that. I do have real festoons, not caused by injections and I am wondering if I have any other choices after reading your comments. I have no respect for anyone, especially a doctor, who treats patients in that manner. I guarantee that if you posted that letter you might get some sort of response from him. I have no idea if there's anyone else that does this procedure, but after reading your comments I'm going to look diligently into another option. Dr. Oz is the reason this doctor is so popular right now, maybe they should be informed of your result so they have a realistic view of this doctor. I am so sorry about the issues you've faced and the way that Dr. Schenier has handled your case. Thank you for taking the time to let me know and I wish you the best of luck.

Maybe for real festoons, it would help greatly and I'm sure you wouldn't have to worry about indentions. I'm sure he has helped many people with festoons and he is well known for that, so I don't want you to not see this doctor because of me when he many be the only one who can help you. In my case, he misjudged the situation, and I don't feel listened to what caused the problem. If hyaluronidase were tried prior, which only takes a few minutes to dissolve the filler, then maybe he would have done a lighter setting with the laser in those areas. The areas of the filler bumps were bloody read and I could tell he really lasered that area a lot more than other areas. He upsets me is that he has ignored every problem that I had. He kept acting like he surgeries don't cause any problems and not giving me any advice on topicals or prescriptions that might have helped the various white bumps that formed over an eight month period. The bumps are finally gone but it was so hard to deal with them all of that time. The bumps were listed as a possible side effect, but if a patient gets them he should look into it and recommend treatments for the problems his surgeries can cause, and not just tell everyone he has never had any complications with any surgery he has done. When you think about that is a laughable, but when you are in desperation to get help you want to believe it. I feel that the problems I have had are a lot more common that he lets on. The indentions, I feel, are a cause of lack of thought, and misjudgement, about what will happen if skin is lasered away to reduce a filler lump and then the filler dissolves. I felt I had a legitimate concern that was not thought about in the least.

Besides the indentions all the other symptoms that I had were listed on his endless list of possible complications. Have you viewed this list yet? When I was reading it, it really did scare me, but he assured me he had never had one of those complications with any patient he had done. If you intend to use him as your laser surgeon you should ask about all of the complications and if he has a treatment plan if anything goes wrong. He didn't have any advice, or help, for me.

That's what I think is awful, I'm so sorry but it sounds like you have a plan. have you heard of anyone else treating festoons other than him?

I'm currently consulting a laser surgeon who is about an hour and a half drive near me. The next time I see him, in a couple of weeks, I will ask if he does surgery to remove festoons. He is very well known in the area and has high feedback remarks. His name is Dr. Berkowitz in Sterling Height, Michigan. Dr. Scheiner claimed that he was in inventor of the festoon surgery, and I don't know if anyone else has caught on to his technique as of yet. Dr Scheiner was in the process of writing a book about removing festoons. I don't know if it's own yet or not.

Thank you for letting me know. I will research Dr. Berkowitz as well. Best of luck and thank you for your very helpful communication.

I did have one more question, how many times had you had filler injected below your eyes and how much time had past in between your last filler and your surgery? I had filler below my eyes once but it was 14 months ago.

Are you still happy with your results?

I will say that the before, and after, pictures of Dr. Scheiner's festoon removal photos are amazing results and may be the option for you to go since you have real festoons. My filler lumps shouldn't have been treated as if they were festoons and what I feel caused the problem. The best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do to get treated.

I had Juvederm Ultra, under my eyes, that was injected in the tear trough area. Immediately, at the point of injection, large lumps formed that never went down until the laser surgery. I have some Hyaluronidase, but it didn't help the bumps. I found out that the Juvederm probably got under the muscle tissue and raised it and why the Hyaluronidase didn't reach it. I had requested for Dr. Scheiner to inject Hyaluronidase deep under those two raised areas to see if it would go down before getting it lasered.

I posted photos about a month after the surgery before all the problems set it one by one. I will say my eyelids were all lumpy because Juvederm flowed into them and also stretched them out. My eyelids look nice now. The only existing problem is one larger indention at the top of my right cheek. That is why I think you wouldn't have identions unless the filler raised the festoon areas even more and has not yet fully dissolved.

I forgot to ask: Did the filler seem to elevate the festoon areas even more? If so, how do they compare now as to before you had filler 14 months ago? That would be a good indication as to whether or not you are ready for festoon surgery.

I forgot to mention that I had Juvederm in October of 2012 and had the laser surgery, with Dr. Scheiner, in January of 2013, so not a lot of time passed for the Juvederm to diminish, and I only had small amounts of Hyaluronidase and it was never injected under the muscle tissue. The doctor who injected the Juvederm Ultra didn't use hyaluronidase, and in fact claimed to have never heard of it. She dumped me when she destroyed my face.

With the filler it smoothed the area and the festoon was less visible but now that the filler has dissipated the festoon is more visible again. They are like bags on my cheekbones. Very frustrating. Thanks again for all your information.

In my opinion, laser surgery would probably help even the entire area for you to where you don't need to keep getting filler to even things out. I think you may still want to consult with doctor Scheiner about the festoons. I had a very different situation that I would have probably been better off just waiting it out for a year until the fillers mostly dissolved on their own. I believe he does know how to get rid of the true festoons. I saw many before and after photos of his patients. I'm very slight, and I may not have had enough tissue to handle the laser surgery without complications. My thin skin wrinkled severely a few months after laser when I stopped using the acquaphor ointment. The extra virgin organic olive oil really got my skin back to normal. I wish I would have tried the olive oil immediately after I got home. It makes your skin so soft. The small white bumps did all eventually go away but it took eight months.

How did you get rid of the small white bumps? I have several that are really upsetting me. My surgery was 5 weeks ago. How did you treat them?

I am so sorry about your experience. I am seeking a surgeon and I am very afraid. Dr. Scheiner is on my list for the same reason. Listening to your testimony scares me. I have true feastoons, my Dad's are huge. I have see surgeons who want to do cheek lift with fat grafting. Another one uses CO2 laser versus the Erbium Laser Dr. Scheiner uses. Any thought? Also does the price change when you get there?