POSTED UNDER Facial Fat Transfer REVIEWS
Fat Transfer - 10 Months out - New York, NY
ORIGINAL POST
My results are mixed, but keep in mind I am very,...
Mike_MJune 8, 2012
WORTH IT$2,500
My results are mixed, but keep in mind I am very, very picky. When I look around here I have to say that I faired very well, which makes me sad to say because I really feel terrible about others who now don't want to show their face.
I had fat transfer done ~10 months ago. Age/sex is late 20-something year old male. I mainly wanted to restore the 'baby fat' of my mid face, as well as make my under-eye area look rested, full, and healthy. I had a good face to start with, one that people would guess as being early 20s, but I myself could see changes I wasn't comfortable with. Mainly that if I was at my target weight then my mid face looked too thin, and if I was at a higher weight then my jaw/neck looked too undefined. I needed a method of selective volume.
I found a surgeon in NYC after much research and I liked his method. Many doctors say that proprietary methods are silly and never better, but I liked his, it was elegant, based on real R&D, and was designed to require nearly no over-filling, due to a higher predicted survival rate. For me the procedure and recovery were a walk in the park.. within 3 days I looked normal enough to be out and about, no one seemed to notice, not even people who knew me. I think it helps when you are younger, because the added volume doesn't look to striking, it blends in better because I had more to start with. I looked maybe a little odd, swelling caused a complete absence of nasal labialfolds for example, and my cheeks/under eye area looked tightly full.. Otherwise I managed to escape most all bruising, I'll never know if it was the Arnicare they had me take orally 3 days before and a week after, plus using it topically.. but in any case I faired very well. For those first three days I did almost nothing but rest, keeping ice packs sometimes gently on my face where it felt the most tight. I drank a lot of water, and was good about the anti-biotics they had me get. (getting those 3 hours after the procedure was really the most hard/embarrassing part of the whole thing!)
For awhile I was very pleased. He put the fat just where it needed the volume (he had a younger picture of me for reference) and his own work was as good as a doctor can do really, or so I feel.
At 3 weeks out I looked best, swelling was gone, and I looked like I was 16 years old. After that it starts to get disconcerting, as if it wasn't so enough after a sharp change in looking better, which is not natural to this level, you now get to see it continue to change in a direction that is less pleasing for 3 - 6 months.. Every day I'd look in the mirror first thing, trying to gauge the changes, if any.. it isn't a healthy thing I know, but I was a little paranoid since I knew to expect some to go away, yet no idea how much would. 3 months out it was clearly still of help, but had decreased a bit in areas. During this time I had also noticed that under my left eye there was one hard cyst, you could feel but not see it. Under the right-eye, where my cheek bone was lower (asymmetrical to my left-side) and had been built up a bit with more fat, I could feel 3 hard, small cysts, again not visible. (All around the size of a small to medium caper.) In all cases they are right along the very rim of the sub-orbital bone. They are beyond where he put any fat, which means they are really bits that made it past his attempted boundary, or they merely migrated. The body, especially under the eye, will sometimes deal with these by encapsulating them, thereby becoming a harder scar tissue. This bothered me of course, but I knew there was hope of them going away, I read that you can sometimes crush them too. I managed to succeed at this with the single one under the left eye, and it became nearly undetectable. If I really hunt for it I can feel something very flat but firmer, sitting on the bone..
8- months out, I've had my ups and downs, days where I was down and felt like a bit too much of the fat had gone away, but I also had to remind myself that I've gotten used to my fuller face, that my standard has changed and that it is hard to remember exactly what volume had been like pre-op in each area. Pictures are difficult, I think it is why many don't post pictures here for this. The reason is you can, with zero changes to your face, in the same 5min span, take pictures that make you look wonderful, and others that look terrible, without changing lighting or anything more than changing your mental attitude, and the angle of your face to the light and the camera.. it is all very subjective and extremely hard to make fair comparisons unless in a very scientific controlled manner take proper before pictures, and do the same for after.. Even doctors fail at this often though, I've seen many where the lighting and other aspects had changed. I myself have not posted pictures because I won't risk people I know finding them, I am prominent enough that it is a risk.
I think the worse part from 6-months on is that I started to know that now as I see the final result and have mapped it all out in my head, that I can see how it could use a touch-up here or there. Things others do not likely see, but I do. The fat survival was not completely even, a couple of the cysts can slightly be seen, not by height, rather by it appearing somewhat more white in those spots. This is due to having more buffer between the skin and the muscle.
I think overall it looks good, and the few people I told are the ones I know would tell me if it looked worse now. They genuinely can say that I do not look worse in any way, and believe that I look a bit better, but that it is subtle to them.
My fears now are long term, due to things I have read, I am wondering if this fat could behave in a strange manner as I get older and lose fat in my face.. The doctor claims it is no different than any other fat in the face, but I am not convinced. For example, if someone is doing a graft to compensate for a malar fat pad (either due to atrophy or position) then how can it be expected that micro-pearls of fat are going to act normally with muscle movement as an original fat pad, which is solid and attached with ligaments and such? It seems logical that the behavior would be very different. I think using fat grafts for certain areas, when well thought in a way that it won't bunch up or interfere with muscle moment, or cause the skin to have an 'Orange-peel' texture is OK. But I don't see how it could behave and compliment the major fat pads in a natural way.. I wish I could get a doctor to talk with me about things like this, but they never seem to have interest in talking to a patient about the really granular details and hard to answer questions.
Final thoughts:
There is no doubt, after all my research that fat transfer is unpredictable. It is the nature of it, I can't say still if it should be reserved for those who need it most, or not done at all until it can be improved.. Partly because sometimes the ones who need it most are the ones who it is least likely to take well, and blend in with existing soft tissues to look natural.. In theory It is a fantastic answer to volume replacement, my main reason I did it was because synthetics of all kinds, any of the typical 6-month fillers were just not at all appealing. The cost in the long run with those is incredible for the amount of volume you get, especially in the US, and they don't feel natural under the skin. In the end I still don't hate or love it, I think it, like most medical practice is still very crude, despite how intelligent and technical the science of it seems, the actual work is a gamble every time. It is not possible, no matter how skilled, for any surgeon to predict what your body will do with a graft like this. There are too many variables, there are different types of fat, there are different degrees of bleeding and other fluids between people that will mix with it, and so on.
Feel free to ask me questions. I will ignore the really bitter people who seem to get mad at anyone who didn't have a terrible experience.. I understand that you are upset, but you have to realize, even though it makes it harder for you to bear that something that ruined your face can in fact work wonderfully on someone else.
Mike_M's provider
Replies (47)
June 19, 2012
Hi Juliabars,
I'm not a doctor but it my observation and often seen that the younger you are the more forgiving and better healing the body is to trauma and possibly faster at giving the fat a blood supply and fighting chance. . The other part was to do with existing structure, position and amount of soft tissue. This varies greatly from person to person but basically if someone has little soft tissue to blend with, and/or its position and shape have changed a lot with age, or if they have have weak structure, then the fat graft will have to be compensating for more than just atrophy, may not look as natural if done to try so.
It is important that the injector doesn't try to go too far to compensate for other factors of aging by using volume. The result may arguably still be an improvement when strictly focusing on that zone and comparing what we consciously associate with aging, but overall it won't quite look right. A young face has a combination of soft transitioning contours but also curves that are defined and structural that will be lost and overly rounded off if a lot of fat is placed there. There is such a thing as 'structural fat grafting', that usually uses non-lipocytes, but I don't know a lot about it. They take other types of tissues like fascia from the body to use, but I would be worried because it isn't performed by many and so less is known.
As far as people who strictly, I cannot say. I've read things that make it sound as though they have a propensity for the body to just absorb much of what is injected. Plus because of the amount they may need it usually needs to be done in phases to achieve the most predictable and even outcome.
But what I have in mind for someone who has lost a lot of fat may not be your case at all. I can say that the under-eye area benefits in a dramatic way from fat transfer, yet is also the most risky! There is no doubt that adding lost volume there will make lax skin feel and look tighter if the fat lasts. It will look lifted and closer to where is once was, and you will look more rested even when feeling tired, and it masks dark circles. (Has to do with angle and how light hits it. The actual dark circles are where no fat should ever be injected, rather it is injected just up to where the skin changes type, near the suborbital rim.) It can be dramatic there, but again it is also where nearly everyone seems to get cysts. So beware and consider carefully. These things are always getting better so wait as long as you can stand.
I'm not a doctor but it my observation and often seen that the younger you are the more forgiving and better healing the body is to trauma and possibly faster at giving the fat a blood supply and fighting chance. . The other part was to do with existing structure, position and amount of soft tissue. This varies greatly from person to person but basically if someone has little soft tissue to blend with, and/or its position and shape have changed a lot with age, or if they have have weak structure, then the fat graft will have to be compensating for more than just atrophy, may not look as natural if done to try so.
It is important that the injector doesn't try to go too far to compensate for other factors of aging by using volume. The result may arguably still be an improvement when strictly focusing on that zone and comparing what we consciously associate with aging, but overall it won't quite look right. A young face has a combination of soft transitioning contours but also curves that are defined and structural that will be lost and overly rounded off if a lot of fat is placed there. There is such a thing as 'structural fat grafting', that usually uses non-lipocytes, but I don't know a lot about it. They take other types of tissues like fascia from the body to use, but I would be worried because it isn't performed by many and so less is known.
As far as people who strictly, I cannot say. I've read things that make it sound as though they have a propensity for the body to just absorb much of what is injected. Plus because of the amount they may need it usually needs to be done in phases to achieve the most predictable and even outcome.
But what I have in mind for someone who has lost a lot of fat may not be your case at all. I can say that the under-eye area benefits in a dramatic way from fat transfer, yet is also the most risky! There is no doubt that adding lost volume there will make lax skin feel and look tighter if the fat lasts. It will look lifted and closer to where is once was, and you will look more rested even when feeling tired, and it masks dark circles. (Has to do with angle and how light hits it. The actual dark circles are where no fat should ever be injected, rather it is injected just up to where the skin changes type, near the suborbital rim.) It can be dramatic there, but again it is also where nearly everyone seems to get cysts. So beware and consider carefully. These things are always getting better so wait as long as you can stand.
June 26, 2012
Thank you for your reply. Firstly, you obviously have researched this well prior to making your decision - what was your method of researching and you have any recommendations for primary or secondary research sources? I find it to be quite difficult to find trustworthy sources on the Internet and most most surgeons I've spoken with rarely go into depth about risks and potential long-term side effects. With regards to the comment about not injecting in the tear trough, could you elaborate on why you've found it to be a bad decision? The fillers and fat transfers I've seen injected there seem excellent and rejuvenating in comparison. I have been considering doing fillers under the eyes, and maybe even elsewhere, because it is temporary and thus can act as a preview for fat transfers. But I'd like to do more research before I follow through.
June 19, 2012
For for my typos. The line "As far as people who strictly" meant to be "As far as people who strictly have atrophy"
A couple more notes, doing fat transfer in phases is a good thing if you can deal with going through the sessions several times. Also learning to sleep on your back after for 3 months or so, and to not put pressure on your face is very good.
A couple more notes, doing fat transfer in phases is a good thing if you can deal with going through the sessions several times. Also learning to sleep on your back after for 3 months or so, and to not put pressure on your face is very good.
June 25, 2012
Have you seen improvement in your skin as in texture and tone?
Good review. Please keep us updated!!
June 26, 2012
I already had very good skin and in my case the evidence showed that nothing more than the volume itself improved the skin. The skin did not seem to improve in any other way, I am not convinced about the stem-cell theory. Perhaps in older patients there could be other results. I also found that one small drawback is it made my pores more visible. On the other hand the overall texture always looks nicer on skin that is more taut.
August 8, 2013
Hi Fox M, thanks a lot for your sharing, i am exactly one year away from my surgery and i totally agree that the fluctuating result and unpredictability of fat graft can be depressing sometimes, i used not to have worried about a swollen face in the morning becox i got really sharp contour but now this issue bothers me everyday the first thing i wake up. I wonder how it looks for you now? i especially hate those fat between my nose cheek under my eyes which is way too much and well settled... that it actually flatten out my face. hope to hear from you soon,
UPDATED FROM Mike_M
2.5 years out
Mike_MApril 23, 2014
Quick update: It is very hard for me judge if this was a good or bad choice, which means the risks are not likely worth it. I would say that I have some improvement in the way I was looking for, but it also changed my look as over time it has become a bit fuller in parts, causing an imbalance and my face to be a bit too rounded. This is despite keeping a low weight/BMI. I think fat grafting for this reason is risky in young patients now, because it isn't adaptable as the face ages, and the live graft has the risk of changing in volume. I also have to wonder if the extra weight of the fat will increase the rate of ptosis with age.
It is a tough problem indeed, mostly due to the cost of fillers, and repeated risks since you have to do them over and over. But if not for those factors I would say stick to HA fillers if you can afford it, with a great injector who above all else has an eye for art and beauty and understands the WHOLE face. Don't get hung up on any specific part of the face, address everything a little bit, not acute fixes.
It is a tough problem indeed, mostly due to the cost of fillers, and repeated risks since you have to do them over and over. But if not for those factors I would say stick to HA fillers if you can afford it, with a great injector who above all else has an eye for art and beauty and understands the WHOLE face. Don't get hung up on any specific part of the face, address everything a little bit, not acute fixes.
Replies (41)
November 28, 2014
That's the most thought out, rational, and well balanced review I've seen written on fat transfer. I myself suffered laser damage that left me with fat loss on the right side of my face which has me considering getting the procedure done in order to restore symmetry. The only that worries me are lumps, bumps, unevenness, and of course finding a doctor that is about to deal with complications should they arise. Now that you're 2.5 years post op could you tell me whether or not the necrosis (cysts) ever resolved or are they still there?
November 28, 2014
That is good about dealing with complications should they arise I meant to say.
December 28, 2014
Thanks. I think they are there but they are tiny and forgotten, I cannot see or easily find them without trying. It is important to remember that we make more of these things at first because there is a psychological trauma to the abrupt change in our self-image. In my case since there was no aesthetic problems, it is not an issue. I am still pleased with the results, it is subtle but still effective even now. A revisit with the Dr. not long ago confirmed that my retention has be as good as it gets, and it looks good.
December 23, 2014
I just had fat transfer I'm 5 days post op so far even just stiff and plastic looking. I am reading all these horror stories and getting so scared now. I see that it's not over filled so far so I'm assuming this volume will go down. I'm. 45yrs female and wanted some more fullness. Now I feel terrified this might all get botched as time goes on.
December 28, 2014
At 5 days out you are seeing far more than fat, you are seeing swelling from trauma and excess fluid.. There is no way to yet know the result. Give it at least 3 weeks to get a better idea.
April 15, 2015
Fantastic overall review. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. This was very informative.
June 22, 2015
Hi Fox_M. Firstly, thanks for taking the time to write this. I am considering this procedure myself and reading a well written, honest review is very useful. May I ask how you are getting on? It is now 3 years since you had this procedure and I am curious as to how the fat has changed with time - I noticed you mentioned that it seemed to get larger despite no fluctuation in weight.
What made you reject the alternatives like Sculptra? Have you noticed any of the "ridge" effects that others have mentioned, where the fat seems to bunch up when you smile? How bad was the fat loss from your face to begin with? I have almost total fat atrophy from my upper cheek and under eyes - an area I know to be the most risky. I'd love to hear how you've gotten on and whether you still think it was worth it.
July 6, 2015
Hi Iamheretolurk, if I were you and you can afford it go with fillers. I have been researching fat grafting now for 6 months and even if things were to go perfectly for you i.e. no reabsorption, lumps, contour irregularities, etc.. Things can still go wrong as you age. Fox pointed it out in an earlier observation of his. The thing is transplanted fat which comes from our body is biologically different and weighs more than facial fat. If a doctor tells you it isn't or doesn't he's either lying or uneducated. I have read about people who were very happy with the fat for the first 3 -5 years and then after that it began to weigh their skin down or in some cases actually migrate down from the cheeks to the neck and even jaw area. Fat is unpredictable and the more I read about it the more I realize there are more cons then pros to fat transfer. One other thing to remember is as we grow old our own fat tends to diminish and the facial fat we started with will diminish at a different rate than our body fat which tends to stay with us as we age and our metabolism slows and that too will cause contour irregularities with ageing.
July 6, 2015
Hi Johnny, thanks for the information. I have noticed your posts on other reviews for fat transfer and I recall you saying that fat transfer isn't permanent and that, at best, it will last about 5 years. If that is the case then how can it migrate? Have you got any links to the reviews which you mentioned? I am not questioning what you read, just trying to read as many first hand accounts as I can.
If I go ahead with this procedure I will be getting about 6 cc's of fat injected, at least in the first instance. I have accepted that my young, full face is gone but I am determined to correct the under eye and under cheekbone hollowness. Having these micro fat transfers seems to be the best way to do that. A lot of the poor results from this procedure seem to come from injecting large volumes and doing it all at once.
If I had a lot of money I would stick to the fillers, but there is nothing on the market that is yet suitable. Sculptra seems to be the best for overall volume, but there are countless reports of bizarre autoimmune type reactions and studies showing that 50% of people developed permanent, visible lumps.
I am interested in your case - damaged by an IPL laser. Have you decided on a treatment option? Have you ruled out fat transfer entirely?
If I go ahead with this procedure I will be getting about 6 cc's of fat injected, at least in the first instance. I have accepted that my young, full face is gone but I am determined to correct the under eye and under cheekbone hollowness. Having these micro fat transfers seems to be the best way to do that. A lot of the poor results from this procedure seem to come from injecting large volumes and doing it all at once.
If I had a lot of money I would stick to the fillers, but there is nothing on the market that is yet suitable. Sculptra seems to be the best for overall volume, but there are countless reports of bizarre autoimmune type reactions and studies showing that 50% of people developed permanent, visible lumps.
I am interested in your case - damaged by an IPL laser. Have you decided on a treatment option? Have you ruled out fat transfer entirely?
July 6, 2015
I've done 6 months of research on this and actually in some cases it is permanent but more often than not that isn't the case. I just some to a user here who had it done at age 50 and she loved it for 4-5 years. As she aged the slowly migrated south pulling her cheeks downwards and forward a little. She confirmed my fears when she said she had gone to two separate surgeons and dermatologists who stated this happens because body fat is heavier than facial fat so when you add ageing into the mix as well as the weight of body fat the issues are compounded. The majority of surgeons out there will not tell you this. In fact this complaint has been voiced by 4-5 other people. Just google "fat grating cheeks jaw" etc.... I will PM you the links. Yes I have ruled out fat transfer entirely and for under the eyes and cheek hollowness either restylane filler.
July 6, 2015
I would like to know how body fat is biologically different than facial fat? I have never read anything ever about that. Also as you age your skin is less taught and hangs with age so its not the fat weighing it down it will do that with fat or not.
Also most face lifts now come with the fat transfer included, most of the negitive results are from 5 years ago or more. PS's know much more about fat grafts now than ever before, and it is the way of the future.
Also most face lifts now come with the fat transfer included, most of the negitive results are from 5 years ago or more. PS's know much more about fat grafts now than ever before, and it is the way of the future.
July 6, 2015
Facial fat and body fat are biologically different and if a PS tells you otherwise they're lying. Facial fat weighs much less than body fat so yes when ageing occurs your skin sags and you lose elasticity and your face begins to hang a bit. However, if you add body fat that tends to weigh more than facial fat that effect is compounded and pushes your face further down. This phenomenon is not new and has been reported now to me by 5 people who wished they never had it done. One who voiced her concern publicly "Parimari".
July 6, 2015
Again I've researched fat transfer now for 6 months to fix some of my issues regarding IPL laser damage. I would not want to dissuade anyone from doing it if I didn't think they would end up worse later on in life. Is fat transfer good as a short term solution youre damn right. Itll look great probably for many years but if it lasts and you hit your mid to late 40's, 50's then expect to encounter problems.
July 6, 2015
This is assuming of course you don't suffer reabsorption, contour irregularities, lumps, etc...
July 18, 2015
Maybe someday it won't be so barbaric but we'll see.. Anyway, read science. There are different cells for adipose with different programming. Kind of like the hair on the back of a mans head, some fat cells stick around long in to adult-hood, and redistribute based on chemical changes in the body that trigger the aging process.. One typical fact is people loose fat from some areas like the face and gain it in others like the thighs and abs. This fat for whatever reason stays around, sometimes no matter how little you eat or activity you get.. And taking these cells and putting them in the face doesn't change their programming, so they stay, and they will grow or shrink just as much as the ones in your abs will. This is a risk since they tend to grow more than the originals would, and so you could get weird looking if you get fat after a facial fat graft.
That is because PS's finally standardized that aging is as much if not more a volumetric issue as it is a change of tissue positions.
That is because PS's finally standardized that aging is as much if not more a volumetric issue as it is a change of tissue positions.
July 18, 2015
Brown fat is the baby fat in the face; white fat is the "bad fat" you tend to gain as you age in certain areas of the body. Shivering has been shown to increase the good "brown" fat in studies, if I could remember where I read it I would link you folks to 'em....I'll go try and remember where. I wonder....would keeping the face extra cold or on ice help over time? Just a thought. And yes fat acts differently depending on where it is taken from, and I would worry that I wouldn't be able to gain weight at all should my face start looking more heavy from the added fat!
July 18, 2015
Hmm that sounds a bit like a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of rocks, but I think I know what you mean -- it is about HOW fat acts and yes they do act differently. I assumed it was more because that fat (which is NOT more "natural" no matter how much people insist it is all natural, since it NATURALLY is not there in the face over time) is not meant to be there and the face cannot support that extra weight, does not have the collagen and elastin to support it (much like a basket that has carried something too heavy for too long) as it once did, so the fat sags (which it would have anyway, even if it had stayed in the face.) It doesn't just stay lifted up and fight gravity like a swollen superhero, it falls like everything else! Half the time I think the bad results we see even on the wealthiest stars are because they looked great walking out of the office, all swollen from a procedure, and then it went down and the real results became evident, over time. Or they gained weight, or something like that. Lara Flynn Boyle.....check it out. I was told this is a good example of too much fat in the face and aging fat in the face.
July 27, 2015
I'm coming from a different place than you are, I think if your at the age of getting a facelift, getting the fat transfer with it is the answer, as long as you have an experienced PS. So at 50 plus is the age I'm looking at.
Fat transfer is the way of the future, thats the way its going, and also the fat that is removed to transfer is treated and purified before it is micro fat grafted to the face.
Also Many PS's now dont want to do the lip filler anymore as it causes lip droop, so do t think the fillers are any lighter than the fat if your worried about it stretching the skin, I personally want to do the FG for many reasons and one of them is also because its my natural fat not some manufatured filler than who knows what its going to do over the years to you.
Fat transfer is the way of the future, thats the way its going, and also the fat that is removed to transfer is treated and purified before it is micro fat grafted to the face.
Also Many PS's now dont want to do the lip filler anymore as it causes lip droop, so do t think the fillers are any lighter than the fat if your worried about it stretching the skin, I personally want to do the FG for many reasons and one of them is also because its my natural fat not some manufatured filler than who knows what its going to do over the years to you.
July 27, 2015
I would look at "Parimari" who had fat transfer done by an excellent surgeon and then 4-5 years later the fat caused premature sagging of her cheeks on one side. Fat transfer results are unpredictable and the fat that's transferred has it's own metabolism that's different than your facial fat. Though initial results may look great you could have issues several years down the line. Fillers are more predictable and can be dissolved the results are not satisfactory. Fat on the other hand is difficult to remove and in order to correct say something along the lines of lumps, bumps, etc... The only 100% sure fire way to remove those is by direct excision meaning you'll end up with a scar on your face should it need to be removed. Sometimes surgeons can use a facelift incision and go through there or a lower eye blepharoplasty to remove the lump. Other times not so much. There are many people on here who loved their fat transfer results at first but then years later regret it.
July 30, 2015
I dont know that 'parmari' had an excellent surgeon or not and that was 4 or 5 years ago, fat transfer is now being done not just in the face but all over the body now, breasts, buttocks, etc.
There are people that have a bad result with everything, thats why there are communities like this, everything is not a sure fire thing, you have to go with a surgeon that has done thousands of what ever procdure you want and hope fore the best, and that goes with fillers as well.
There are people that have a bad result with everything, thats why there are communities like this, everything is not a sure fire thing, you have to go with a surgeon that has done thousands of what ever procdure you want and hope fore the best, and that goes with fillers as well.
July 30, 2015
Personally, I wouldn't do a facial fat graft unless it was with a face lift, when you are tightening the skin anyway.
July 30, 2015
I agree that with a well performed face lift, meticulously done, not overdone, fat might be a good idea if you are a candidate. I am small boned and would be very cautious therefore. I have a few docs I would consider but still am too broke to even think about it. They cost more (I think Rosenberg is rumored to have done Christie Brinkley's last two lifts and she looks way better than with her first one. He is insanely pricey but he is also good.) The lip filler causing lip droop is something I called and asked my "go-to guy" about. This happens when there is too much done and it is not done along with the botox to slightly lift the top lip and, as he claims, show the pink of the lip. I did it and it works but does not last long on me since I drink and eat too much:) Fillers do NOT cause lip droop unless it is put in the top lip incorrectly or in the wrong place. If you are doing way too much for your lips of course it will eventually do this and I have experienced that too. Now I propose the reason filler in lips is not done as often because, guess what? Big lips are going out, and have been for a while. It never looks right on many of us., nor does it fit all faces. It looked dreadful on me, but came off quickly enough. It does not do "who knows what" after many years at all. It dissipates in less than a year. And sorry to say it but if fat was not in that place to begin with, it is NOT NATURAL and it still counts as plastic surgery fake, to all celebs who claim that they are all natural. Kim Kartrash et al., this means YOU. Hyaluronic acid is equally natural (that's what is in lip fillers.) I personally don't care what is natural, I care what works and what lasts and what won't go bad, and in that case, I agree that fat when done very well might work....but lately I am thinking the "fad" of stuffing everything often tends to die out in ten years. Breasts and lips are now out, butts and cheeks are now in. So who knows what will happen next? Big fat chins? Elbows? I am now thinking I just want tighter and lifted and have accepted that I don't have a cutesy pug nosed apple cheeked look....and guess what? I am fine with that, I just want to do a very temperate lift and tighten in a few years and stick to the basics as it's cheaper and easier,
July 30, 2015
She did have an excellent surgeon who has done hundreds if not thousands as did LMS as did ILovePups. If you want to do it go for it but don't say you hadn't been warned. Sometimes you won't see the negative results of fat transfer until years later and thats also true with fillers.
August 31, 2015
@nadiahoney Almost everything you have said is wrong and the rest is conjecture.
September 21, 2015
Nadiahoney's comments are spot on. She is one of the best informed people on this site.
January 12, 2017
It was a complete mess of a post and hard to even parse, so I have no idea what she knows.. I've spent 10 years learning the science through medical journals and data on the procedures of adipose grafts.
I reason I said she was incorrect was on the matter of HAs being natural. See if one knows the science they know they HAs you have injected are not at all the same naturally occurring HAs we have in our tissues. The ones injected are highly modified via cross-linking, to give them their consistency and to resist being broken down. They are man-made.
I reason I said she was incorrect was on the matter of HAs being natural. See if one knows the science they know they HAs you have injected are not at all the same naturally occurring HAs we have in our tissues. The ones injected are highly modified via cross-linking, to give them their consistency and to resist being broken down. They are man-made.
January 12, 2017
There have been plenty of studies done on such things but it wouldn't be practical in any case. The only short-term effect we can get out of adipose from cold is the reduction of it, not increase. Discovered from infants with adipose atrophy from Popsicles, and hence the patent taken out which lead to the creation of Zeltiq.
January 12, 2017
There have been plenty of studies done on such things but it wouldn't be practical in any case. The only short-term effect we can get out of adipose from cold is the reduction of it, not increase. Discovered from infants with adipose atrophy from Popsicles, and hence the patent taken out which lead to the creation of Zeltiq.
January 12, 2017
"Hmm that sounds a bit like a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of rocks, but I think I know what you mean"
The added adipose has no greater risk of contributing to facial sag than a person with naturally more adipose remaining in their face. In other words, it is presumed that the person who had fat injections did so because their face was thin.. It is true that a thinner face is more likely to have less drag, but a thinner face has plenty of its own ways of aging worse than a face with a nice even layer of fat in each compartment.
When a person has a fat graft, it is presumed they either were very thin, or had lost fat in an imbalanced manner and wished to even things up.
If however a person with already large cheeks merely wishes to have even larger cheeks, then your argument would hold up.
Personally I am not a big believer in the idea that gravity -causes- our face to sag, as much as gravity merely dictates the direction. The causes of our face sagging, I believe is changes to our protein matrix as we age. All proteins in our tissues go from a uniform structure, to a cross-linked imbalanced structure. There are many other changes as well, all age and damage related.. Research advanced glycation end products.
PS: I would wager long-term (20+ years) in space, without gravity, and the person would have loose skin all the same, they would look older all the same, though perhaps no bad jowls since the lack of gravity holds it neutral. .. and the moment they get to gravity, boom, the downward sag. This is my conjecture.
The added adipose has no greater risk of contributing to facial sag than a person with naturally more adipose remaining in their face. In other words, it is presumed that the person who had fat injections did so because their face was thin.. It is true that a thinner face is more likely to have less drag, but a thinner face has plenty of its own ways of aging worse than a face with a nice even layer of fat in each compartment.
When a person has a fat graft, it is presumed they either were very thin, or had lost fat in an imbalanced manner and wished to even things up.
If however a person with already large cheeks merely wishes to have even larger cheeks, then your argument would hold up.
Personally I am not a big believer in the idea that gravity -causes- our face to sag, as much as gravity merely dictates the direction. The causes of our face sagging, I believe is changes to our protein matrix as we age. All proteins in our tissues go from a uniform structure, to a cross-linked imbalanced structure. There are many other changes as well, all age and damage related.. Research advanced glycation end products.
PS: I would wager long-term (20+ years) in space, without gravity, and the person would have loose skin all the same, they would look older all the same, though perhaps no bad jowls since the lack of gravity holds it neutral. .. and the moment they get to gravity, boom, the downward sag. This is my conjecture.
January 12, 2017
"The added adipose has no greater risk of contributing to facial sag than a person with naturally more adipose remaining in their face. " Fat grafts don't just 'float' under the skin. They literally grow into the soft tissue, adding weight and tension, stretching out the skin and causing dynamic facial deformities. Secondly, fat cells on the body are different to those in the face. Body fat is a lot tougher, heavier and more fibrous - essentially more viscose than natural facial fat. When body fat is injected into the face, it encapsulates and becomes surrounded by scar tissue. This isn't a big issue when it's injected deep into the buttocks, for instance, but it's a huge issue when it's in the face. And finally, if a person has a thin face, their natural connective tissue and bone structure are not designed to support the significant surplus weight and tension caused by fat grafts.
Ultimately, it's akin to sticking in implants in the face, hoping to look like Angelina Jolie. For similar and different reasons, you can't just put fat in the face and hope for it to look natural and normal like a typical 'fresh faced teen'.
Ultimately, it's akin to sticking in implants in the face, hoping to look like Angelina Jolie. For similar and different reasons, you can't just put fat in the face and hope for it to look natural and normal like a typical 'fresh faced teen'.
January 12, 2017
Fiberosis as you describe is only a possible and random outcome of the injected fat, this was not the case for me aside from two small spots that I no longer feel.
I said a person with "naturally MORE adipose remaining in their face." The more part is the important part.. you didn't seem to catch my drift that I was comparing a thin face, then grafted, to a fuller natural face. Either way, there is weight/volume to contend with. Also, we are normally talking about very small amounts, do you know how little 15cc is in weight?
It is 100% that the programming of the body fat is different than the face, just keep your weight stable.
You are making a lot of assumptions about what I, or a particular person had done, or why.. and ending up looking like a fresh faced teen required nothing, I looked 19 when I did it, and I came out looking 19. What I did was for personal preference and without pictures you wouldn't understand. It was high conservative and people, even my mother, had no idea I did anything at all.
I'm sorry if you or someone you know had a bad result. Most people don't know what they want.. so they just get big overly full western-style sculpted cheeks, and a contour under them. I wanted the opposite.. Think, South Korea.
I said a person with "naturally MORE adipose remaining in their face." The more part is the important part.. you didn't seem to catch my drift that I was comparing a thin face, then grafted, to a fuller natural face. Either way, there is weight/volume to contend with. Also, we are normally talking about very small amounts, do you know how little 15cc is in weight?
It is 100% that the programming of the body fat is different than the face, just keep your weight stable.
You are making a lot of assumptions about what I, or a particular person had done, or why.. and ending up looking like a fresh faced teen required nothing, I looked 19 when I did it, and I came out looking 19. What I did was for personal preference and without pictures you wouldn't understand. It was high conservative and people, even my mother, had no idea I did anything at all.
I'm sorry if you or someone you know had a bad result. Most people don't know what they want.. so they just get big overly full western-style sculpted cheeks, and a contour under them. I wanted the opposite.. Think, South Korea.
UPDATED FROM Mike_M
Update to all.
Mike_MMarch 21, 2020
All is well. It has been 9 years, and it still has some benefit but who can know anymore for certain. Voluma is plenty enough for me to tailor my look. I think I just used to worry too much about it all. The facts are it did add some 'babyfat' and balance, and if I stay fit and with natural continued decrease in facial fat, the results are that I got to stay younger looking.
Replies (4)
January 3, 2021
Watch some of Dr Prasads from NY UTube videos on facial fat transfer. He agrees with you too unpredictable. He suggests the Y Lift using fillers to restore volume but like you said has to be done annually $$$$$.
February 11, 2021
That’s great. I read your first post and you were concerned that the grafts wouldn’t behave like normal fat & therefore might cause an unnatural look. I understand from your last post that that did not play out and that although you use some fillers, overall you don’t fill there were any negative visual effects over time. Is that correct?
August 4, 2022
Yes that's correct, and actually I since that last post have decided fillers long-term can have their own problems for sure. Check out some videos from the Victorian Institute on Utube by Dr. Gavin Chan ; I started recently to have these issues. A lot of excess water, lymphatic issues, inflammation, etc. I dissolved all my fillers and look far better for it. Now I'm back to appreciating that while Prasad is of course right about the predictability of fat, fat that takes and is healthy is wonderfully identical to what you expect and want your tissues to look and behave like. Fillers on the other hand make up a lot of their volume from water. That pocket that the filler was placed in may be nice and taught for the first couple years, but eventually that pocket allows more water to fill the area as it hydrolyzes, and you get a rather more mushy result that is less augmentation in the 3rd dimension, thus you keep adding filler to get back that projection. However, we now know it really adds up, and eventually your face just gets bigger and bigger, and you lose perspective. So unfortunately fillers have more management involved than we used to know, you cannot just always wait out their metabolization. So fat is like-with-like replacement, it's nice when it works. However I do agree that the last place I want to risk fat is around the eyes, too unforgiving and risky.
August 5, 2022
Thanks for letting me know. I recently read something about second facelifts & the surgeon said something about all the tissue being gray. It really turned me off to that option.
- Julia