Write a review

Created New Spider Veins - Lutherville Timonium, MD

I have gone through hundreds of needles on both...

I have gone through hundreds of needles on both legs to remove clusters of spider veins at the vein clinics of America in Baltimore , only to have many many new spider veins come out. I finished my treatments and to follow up in 3 months I pay out of pocket $300.00 each visit for 20 mins on each leg. I am afraid this is going to become a never ending story and I am running out of money. any ideas out there?
Vein clinics of America

The doctor seem to do a good job, I am just concerned why veins are treated and new apear.

Was this review helpful?

Comments (33)

Sort by

I had about 20 or treatments in a span of 4 months and the pain was almost unbearable and they billed my ins. co over $100,000.00 My out of pocket is over $2,000.00 and my legs are a terrible mess and I am in constant pain.
  • Reply
You're welcome. I hope the moderators enourage deatils and not sympathinzing in the comments...."Just the facts mam".
  • Reply
@Stevie Girl: Thanks for posting so much detailed information!
  • Reply
BTW, I neglected to mention where I had my procedure done. It is now called the Center for Vein Restoration, in Fairfax, VA. (They have offices in other locations, too). It used to be called NoVA Vein Center, and it is still in the medical complex at Fair Oaks Hospital. The vascular surgeon is Dr. Arun Chowla. I will not lie and say that my leg wasn't aching a little afterwards, and Friday as well, but nothing that ibuprofen can't handle. So far, I have experienced some swelling, and some bruising which are both normal.
  • Reply
So how has everyone made out with their treatments? Does anyone have any updates, observations, anything new to add? I'm especially wondering if Cassie L. went for a consultation with a new vascular specialist after being urged to get a second opinion--and an ultrasound. I am SO glad I finally did, or I might still be wasting my time and money getting useless "treatments" at a clinic that is more about cosmetic treatments than medical ones anymore. Anyway, I had my left leg, the really bad one done, on Thu. (Aug. 1). I had the laser treatment& I can look on the sheet for exactly what they call it and what it costs. I did have to pay out of pocket, because I could not stand to wait 6 more months until the 6-month lock-out was expired for pre-existing conditions with my new insurance. In total, both legs will cost just about $4K. They are willing to work out a payment plan with self-pay pts. I will see if I need to do that. It only took about 50 minutes or so. The nurse gave me about 10 injections of a local numbing anesthetic, then the surgeon came in and used the laser to do the ultrasound-guided procedure. It was cool to be alert for the whole thing and be able to observe. It was fascinating. Vascular surgery has advanced so far in recent years. I had 3 major veins that needed to be sealed, although two were what he called tributaries. He did say to wear the compression stockings for 3 days after. After the stories I've heard , I think I'll go more like 3 weeks. Hey, I've spent my whole summer in these hot stockings so far, and survived, so what's a few more weeks? It will be worth it if I don't always have to cover up next summer. I have about 4 ankle bracelets that have stayed in the jewelry drawer for several years now.
  • Reply
Yes. 2 months out fro Veingogh I have more proliferation if veins in the treated areas. now I am left only with the options of leg makeup or camoflage tatoo. My local tatoo person will not do it, but there is someone in San Diego who will, so I will go there in a few months and have her do a small area as a trial.
  • Reply
Hi Laura, sorry I did not get back to you sooner, because I read your reply and wanted to answer a couple of weeks ago, (things just kept me from having a second's free time.) I talked to my vascular surgeon about your situation, and asked him if that is common for the Vein Gogh to cause new proliferations. He said that it's fairly common, as any device that produced a fair bit of heat like that can cause it. But he also said that often they clear up spontaneously, without treatment. (That surprised me!) He said that the ones that don't, they treat with sclerotherapy. I asked him if they were going to happen, (new proliferations) wasn't it likely it would within the first few weeks after a treatment? He said definitely, but it could be up to a couple of months where the patient is susceptible, and that wearing the compression stockings definitely works as a preventative measure. (I had learned that after getting some new proliferations of spiders right after a sclerotherapy treatment, and not wearing any stockings, (the previous doc failed to tell me to, because he had been treating spiders in the first place, and usually only tells pts. to wear the stockings after treating large, or "feeder" veins. But, I had several un-DXed and untreated places (the greater saphenous vein and 2 tributaries) that were malfunctioning from valve failure, so he was blithely treating the symptoms, not the underlying disease. Anyway, when I went back to get him to fix those, which he charged me for, I wore the stockings for a few days afterward. They did not get any new ones, but the old areas he had treated never really went away, and seemed to need more treatments after being treated, because he never stopped to Q whether something more serious was going on, or didn't care, as long as he was making $ off my problems. So, my advice to you would be, don't go to San Diego for tattoo body makeup. It seems to me that @$$hat doctor is not very competent, and was giving up and telling you to give up, way too precipitously. You live in what part of the country? Obviously it is way too exhausting, of your energy and your resources, to go from one dr.'s office to another seeking a second opinion. Well, just find them online, email their office, put a notice on your message that you wish for the dr. her/himself to see the message, and briefly state your situation, and what has been outlined to you as your options, and that you would like to make an appointment to come in if they are able to help you. And stay away from the corporate franchises, and try to see someone who has some renown as a vascular specialist. Dr. Chowla, BTW, was tied with another dr.--his friend and rival-- for first in his class in med school. (I overheard this.) Then, if you do go for sclerotherapy for treating the new proliferations, just wear the stockings-for a while, to be on the safe side. As the cooler weather will be coming soon, it won't be as bad as spending an entire Virginia *summer* in compression stockings, which I cowboy'ed (or girl'ed?) up and just did. You might start with the second strongest, (20-30), then after a week, to 15-20, then after one more week to 8-15, then venture to go without. Ames Walker sells inexpensive ones if you don't want to spend much on the darn things. I wore mine for 3 weeks after the first leg, the complicated one, and just over a week on the right, because it was such a piece-a-cake! I have not had any problems so far.
  • Reply
Thanks for the input. I haev had my saphous veins closed and another one in my left leg besides. I have worn compression stockings most times too. And I didn't go to franchises for spider vein treatment. I've also had sclerotherapy and that didn't work either and hurt like heck. Also I'll be living in Hawaii as of Dec 10 so that is why the issue with spider veins is in the forefront. No compression stockings there! So I think a trial camo tatoo is worth it. After that it is on to camo makeup!
  • Reply
Well, one other thing I read on a forum about the Vein Gogh and after effects was from this one doctor who said that he had not had any patients get new clusters of telangiectasia as a result of the treatment itself, because of the way it was delivered. He said the heat from it should be delivered in small gentle pulses, not a strong steady "stream". I forget the exact phrase, because I never have learned to bookmark something of interest I come across like that, aways operating on the assumption that I will be able to find it later no problem and then don't. I wish now I had bookmarked the link to that discussion, so at least we would know the doc's name. Maybe the way the treatment is delivered makes no difference, but if one specialist says it improves results like that, I think that it ought to be looked at more closely. I never got good results from sclerotherapy either, but that was likely because I had those 3 feeder veins making new spiders appear, or keeping the old ones from clearing up the way they might have if there weren't an underlying issue complicating things. Maybe you could try just a small "test" area to tattoo, before you go ahead with the whole leg, or large areas, to be sure it will blend OK and so on. Because you still might be able to get good results from a capable doc, with the vein thing. BTW, how much did he charge for sclerotherapy, if I may ask? The specialist who did my procedure, I was SHOCKED to see, charges his patients less than EL Ripoff, the guy who had me coming back over &over for treatments "in vain", ha ha! He charged $300 per half-hr. treatment, and my specialist charges $200. Did they give you a good topical numbing creme? If they give you one and you use it, it *REALLY* makes a difference in your response. I would be jumping off the table if they didn't get me numb first, but once they do, I feel almost nothing.
  • Reply
A final suggestion, and then I'm gonna shut up, because you will do what you want in the end in any case, and that is as it ought to be, but just remember that tats are permanent, and camo makeup and the like is not, so if you don't like the result you can always try another kind, etc. And, if you are moving to Hawaii, don't be afraid to try one of the new top rated self-tanning products, because the new ones use some type of a sugar by-product for coloring that looks really natural. There is this one called Tan Physics, which is supposed to be so "hot" they hype the heck out of it, but since they are so sneaky about mentioning the price, I feel automatically distrustful. But there is one called Moisture Tan that is made with a similar coloring base, and this one gets high ratings too, and they tell you the price right on the site. I ordered some from them. They are supposed to camouflage all kinds of imperfections on the skin like spider veins, (if you go dark enough, I imagine they do). As for my own situation, I realize now that I don't have that many spiders at all, my left leg just looked terrible and bruised when the circulation was so unhealthy, but the ones that I have are mostly around the ankle, like a few small clusters, where they really show unless I'm wearing socks...so they said to come back a month after the second procedure (3 weeks now!) and they would get them then. The other thing I still have is the discoloration from those tiny red pinpoint size "dots" all over the areas that were most afflicted by problem large veins: the shin and inner calf on the left leg, but it appears to be (knock on wood) getting lighter. Didn't you mention something about getting something like that? If so, have they faded any, or did you use anything to help them go away?
  • Reply
Self tanners are not so great for me because I have a lot of brown spots which really show up with self tanner. They get darker. I find the best results with Sally Hanse leg makeup. It really evens everything out but still does not completely hide the spider veins. As far as tatoos, I am not new to them,I have both my eyebrows and lips tatooed, Lips have been done for about 15 years and eyebrows for 3. They look very natural. It's all about getting the right artist. Don't feel compelled to stop communicating. I might always learn something. What I would really like is to find someone who HAD camo tatoos on spider veins. But most people's problems are solved by one ot the other methods that I have tried, so they never get to that point.
  • Reply
I don't remember the sclerotherapy cost. It was about 15 years ago and it was saline. Yes I will do a test area and report. Probably going down in Nov. for the treatment. I try to do something every year to improve my appearance although I am by no means a "so cal" looking woman with the polished look, short skirt, and long shiny straight hair they mostly seem to have. So I have done lipo on upper arms, RK vision correction, cellulaze, etc.
  • Reply
I've considered having some of the "red" or pigmented part of my lips tattooed to color the areas where I have total pigment loss and they're so pale due to trauma to the tissue. They are just getting more washed out in general, as well. But the doc I talked to about it recommended against it because he said it'd look uneven to fill in just some spots. he says just color it over w/ lipstick. The tat would mean I would have to have the entire lip or both tattooed in to be even. But yours came out looking natural? Great. What about eyebrows, you had them darkened with tattooing? I darken mine with just facial hair product. I wish I could get a (personal) referral like yours for someone local to me who does it, because I would be too chicken to go to just anybody, in case they screwed it up. I used to live in LA years ago, in Venice, only 1 1/2 blocks from Marina Del Ray where the Beni Hana was. ( Off Admiralty Way). That was the thing I recall most about all those places along the Marina: Beni Hana. They did have a bunch of nice places to have dinner or Sunday brunch too, but I do love teppanyaki. Back to tattoos, I would definitely need to be numb for a tat, and they're not licensed to do that (novocain by injection). Unless the numbing creme is enough.
  • Reply
My lips were done with a novacaine block from a dentist. But since then I've had them retouched and it has always gone well. I feel that the best advice is to find someone with makeup tatoo and find out who did the work.
  • Reply
I would say tatooing over is a big no-no. Tattoos will never resemble the skin color! As for now you still have a chance to make the body heal, don't fall for the voice of desperation saying "do something about it now" - you risk ending up in the spiral of solving the problem the previous solution created, and then having a new problem to solve. Vein gogh or vein wave in my opinion is not a solution for veins on legs. The problem is the blood flow, better eat horse chestnut, work out, not external or topical treatments.
  • Reply
Pearlygates: Thanks for the info... good to know.
  • Reply
Sheesh, that is a major bummer, Cassie. Have you had a chance to get a consultation with a specialist yet? To get to the bottom of why these are happening? I would like to make one other suggestion, and don't get mad, because I'm not suggesting anything I wouldn't do myself, (if not altogether enthusiastically). Try wearing compression stockings (the thigh highs, not the pantyhose--they're just too unbearable!) all day, or whenever you have to be on your feet, just for the period of time while you're undergoing treatment. I got some 20-30 compression in the sheerest kind and they don't look bad at all; it's just that summer is not the ideal season to have to be wearing these suckers. They are kind of hot, and I am not happy about that, but I have not been able to schedule my surgery yet because I recently switched insurance, and now I am dealing with either a) paying the whole cost of it; or b) waiting for the 6-month lock-out on "pre-existing conditions" to pass and then it will be covered. I am wearing the stockings so that my veins will not get worse in the meantime, and believe me, it's no fun in this weather, but I remind myself that it'll be even less fun to end up with varicose veins.
  • Reply
Sheesh, that is a major bummer, Cassie. Have you had a chance to get a consultation with a specialist yet? To get to the bottom of why these are happening? I would like to make one other suggestion, and don't get mad, because I'm not suggesting anything I wouldn't do myself, (if not altogether enthusiastically). Try wearing compression stockings (the thigh highs, not the pantyhose--they're just too unbearable!) all day, or whenever you have to be on your feet, just for the period of time while you're undergoing treatment. I got some 20-30 compression in the sheerest kind and they don't look bad at all; it's just that summer is not the ideal season to have to be wearing these suckers. They are kind of hot, and I am not happy about that, but I have not been able to schedule my surgery yet because I recently switched insurance, and now I am dealing with either a) paying the whole cost of it; or b) waiting for the 6-month lock-out on "pre-existing conditions" to pass and then it will be covered. I am wearing the stockings so that my veins will not get worse in the meantime, and believe me, it's no fun in this weather, but I remind myself that it'll be even less fun to end up with varicose veins.
  • Reply
I always wore the stockings for 3 days after very procedure, I will be seeing the doctor soon for my 3 month check up. I'm sure it will be my fault.
  • Reply
Don't be silly. It's not your fault that you could not predict that this stuff would happen. It happened to me a couple of times, and I wasn't told anything by the doc either. I started wearing the stockings on my own initiative, as a precautionary measure after I was getting treated. Since you're more sensitive, maybe you ought to try wearing the stockings a few weeks, even a couple of months, after a treatment. I wore them almost round the clock 'except when I was in bed after a treatment, for about a week, just to be safe. I would do it again, maybe 3 months, if I'm at risk of getting more of those @#$%^ spiders, just not to get them again. I know it's a raw deal having to wear 'em in the hot weather, but it would be worth it not to have those loathsome blue blotches and have to hide one's legs under pants all year round. On the bright side, if there is one-- beside that it isn't forever--I buy the sheerest "lace top" thigh highs, which DO stay up by themselves, and I AM 5'7', which would be a tall but I buy extra long so they come up quite high. Sometimes when we're alone in the house, I walk around in the stockings w/o anything else on my legs, which my DH quite enjoys. I have to say, the black ones DO look quite smashing. Think about something you look forward to, as your compensation for all you go through now, something nice, like being able to wear an ankle bracelet again. I am sure these "spiders" are happening now because it's a reaction to the treatment. Maybe people like us have more sensitive skin. My ex-doc said people with Irish skin are more sensitive. I am only partially Irish, so I don't know about that theory. Another thing you could try, rub a little of the Bruise Relief gel, or some vein product like Derma K, or Derma E Clear Vein Creme into the affected areas after treatment, frequently. My old hematologist, (back in L.A.) used to swear by Arnica for bruising and especially for preventing bruises right after trauma. They all work on the same principle, that instead of repairing the blood vessels after they are ruptured and start to disperse their contents, they prevent that by strengthening their walls so that the bruise does not actually appear, or if it does, it helps heal it faster. If these products work for bruises, they ought to work for other types of broken capillaries as well. Frequent application to the sites of trauma (or could-be trauma) may also make the difference. OH! I forgot to ask though. You are going *back* to the doctor, you say. Presumably the same doctor. Well, IMO, you should not let this individual do another THING to your veins without an ultrasound and a proper analysis of their overall health. Because if there IS an underlying condition that is causing these spider "veins" or capillaries, really, to keep occurring, and it is going un DX'ed, as happened in my case, (s)he is irresponsible, negligent, and likely not fit to be practicing phlebology. Not to mention a slime who is filling their piggy bank by conning pts. Do get that checked out, and fixed if there IS something going on, before you throw good money after bad, spending one dime more one these nowhere-road treatments. And please let me know, what's going on, and how you're doing, K? 'Cause otherwise I will be worried about you.
  • Reply
My vascular surgeon said that treating spider veins usually goes well (he does not use lasers) but that, although it is rare to uncommon, the treatments can trigger a condition that has the word "mass" in it. I can't remember the name now, just that "mass" was part of it, and that the mass is made up of new spider veins-a whole bunch of them instead of one here or there. He said, also, that another negative rare but possible outcomes, is dark, permanent lines or streaks. After $23-26,000.00 spent on that clinic, I'd kiss them goodbye. Obviously they gain from new veins emerging and either they are knowledgeable (which is bad) or unethical (which is bad too) because they keep treating you without explaining the realities you might be facing. I'd skip these vein clinics and pseudo-medical spa-type clinics and look for a good vascular surgeon so you will receive care from someone who actually considers him or herself a medical professional.
  • Reply
Hi Cassie: I could have written your message. I have been there, right down to having wasted likely a couple K on out-of-pocket treatments for spider veins,after having the larger "feeder" veins treated, all by sclerotherapy. The trouble was, it was a far-too-incomplete job. And, just ignore the comments from all the amateur doctors one here. New spiders CAN crop up due to the treatment, (no you DON'T have to be taking hormones for this to happen, just very sensitive skin). Compression stockings for a few days after, I found stopped this, after it happening to me twice. But another commenter was partially right. It is likely an incompetent vein, or more than one incompetent vein, as in my case, "feeding" the spider veins. It does NOT have to be the "saphenous vein", so don't go to see your specialist with a self-DX. I live in Fairfax CO, so luckily, after two mediocrities, I was able to find a *competent* vascular specialist. (That's the trick-- medical care is abundantly available!) Try looking online for state-of-the-art vascular specialists, as I really believe you need one who is up to date on, and has,all current technology available. The "vein clinic" who wasted all my money, is uninterested in progressing beyond backwoods, unguided sclerotherapy. The vascular specialist, OTOH, scheduled an ultrasound of the veins in my legs, first thing. Insurance covers this, (luckily because it is over $400 if you pay out-of-pocket). He determined that I have several incompetent veins, in both legs, not just the leg that developed a DVT during the 3rd trimester of a pregnancy, but that leg has more issues. The veins lose elasticity and cannot close properly and push the blood flow upward toward the heart; thus, the reflux back into the leg, where it "pools up". The veins become enlarged from this ill use. The surgery he recommended to correct the underlying problem, (the spiders are merely a symptom) is outpatient, taking about 1/2 hr. They use a large laser (not the rinky-dink kind used on facial capillaries, the type used in an OR) to close the incompetent veins, where they will soon disintegrate & be resorbed by the body tissue. As they are "going" the body is busily building new networks of veins from the many thousands of miles of healthy, little-used ones we all have available. Your insurance does cover this, at least, all reputable policies. And then, when you're all mended, THEN you can have the spiders treated so they won't come back. I will be in the same boat, and this part we will have to pay out-of pocket, so I will tell you what I plan to do. Stick with the specialist. (Make sure he has the Vein Gogh. it is the biggest of the Big Guns against spider veins). From everything I have gathered in my research, it usually gets 'em all -even the finest ones- in 1 treatment. Supposedly only rarely does it take 2 treatments. After that, from time to time, people may require "touch-ups" for new spiders which may occur. The reason I would choose the Vein Gogh over the Veinwave is that, as I understand it, the Veinwave is high tech sclerotherapy. Sclerotherapy is just not that efficient. I imagine the Veinwave is way better, as it isn't all "in the dark", I guess, and it is more thorough, but it is still saline sclerotherapy, which never served me well. I would rather do the Vein Gogh, and not have to have umteen treatments. Which I have a sneaking feeling Veinwave might entail.
  • Reply
I was not told to wear compression stockings after the Yag laser treatment and that may have made the difference. After the viengogh I wore them for 2 days. I don't believe that Veinwave is sclerotherapy. It is thermocoagulation, from heat.I would have tried weivwave as many sites say that they are essentially the same, but my physician ( who did the aspphous vein ablation) said that they were soo small to treat with Veinwave. So i went to for the Viengogh. I am 2 weeks out now and things are still looking positive. Still have the pinpoint blood spots, but the telangiectasis ( matting ) is pretty much gone.
  • Reply
I have used many of these devices and no, veinwave and veingogh is basically the same thing. It is thermocoagulation. Not sclerotherapy at all. They both do what laser does, coagulate the vein through heat, but with a needle instead.
  • Reply
I would not presume that the treatment "created" new ones. It is your body that generates new ones, especially if you take horemones. And you are never know whose body will and whose won't, but i agree that a person should be warned that this can happen.
  • Reply