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Not Sure Yet - Cooper City, FL

Had my first treatment yesterday. I did smell the...

Had my first treatment yesterday. I did smell the burning skin that everyone complains about (it's actually the little hairs being singed). It did sting but quite tolerable with the numbing cream applied 1 hour prior. Felt like a bad sunburn for about 3 hours then didn't feel anything at all.

Almost went to the gym but after looking at it thought better due to the burned checkerboard appearance. LOL. Feels fine today, still looks bad but going to the gym anyway. Can't stay in for 3-4 days. Can't wait for the next tx next month and I did buy a package of 3. Too soon to say if it's worth it-I'll make that assessment after the third tx.

Ended up only doing two of these (one at the spa...

Ended up only doing two of these (one at the spa below and another elsewhere 6 weeks later) and honestly, didn't see a lick of difference anywhere. I doubt a third would have made a significant difference. Waste of money.
Ageless Skin Med Spa

Love this spa. Erin is very experienced and knowledgeable. Also very patient. Takes the time to answer questions and return calls/emails. Staff is very professional and courteous.

5 out of 5 stars Overall rating
5 out of 5 stars Doctor's bedside manner
5 out of 5 stars Answered my questions
3 out of 5 stars After care follow-up
4 out of 5 stars Time spent with me
5 out of 5 stars Phone or email responsiveness
5 out of 5 stars Staff professionalism & courtesy
5 out of 5 stars Payment process
5 out of 5 stars Wait times
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can we use ematrix after acid hialuronique filer?
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I am going for my 3rd treatment next week and am absolutely a believer, it's done wonders for my skin. I am a 52 yr old with some light acne scars on one cheek that were starting to make my skin look "wavy". My neck was also starting to get the creppy look. The first treatment was done at a B48 level and since I did so well with it the second treatment was done at a C50. My third and last treatment will be at C53. I do get numbing cream BUT it still hurts quite a bit. My face stays red for about an hour and then it just looks like I have a nice tan. The little "dots" last about 6 days. I don't use anything on my skin except for a light moisturizer to keep the skin moist. Currently my acne scars and the "wave" affect is much much less noticeable. My neck is already looking really good too with not so much wrinkling going on. I feel and look absolutely amazing. I get compliments on my skin all the time. I would recommend Ematrix.
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I realize this thread is a little older but I wanted to post anyway. It is no wonder you didn't see any or little result from the tx's. The pictures you posted look like the tech just pulsed random areas. She may have been trying to target an area but the overlap of each grid mark is horrible. In order to have a good ematrix tx there needs to be at least a 20% overlap (that way you will have the pin dots completely covering the area that has issues). It doesn't appear that you have any overlap and you have a lot of streaking (where areas weren't even pulsed). Actually, you have quite a few areas that look like you have half a grid mark. I am surprised the machine would allow a pulse if it wasn't flat on your skin. I have no idea what setting you were done at but I personally would have done your tx at a high B or a low to mid C. Level A is for minor issues, level B is for intermediate and level C is for significant.
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She did it a B and had I done further txs, she would have used a C. The tech is an ARNP who has been in dermatology practice for some time. This pic was right after the procedure in the car. I honestly don't think I would do it again, but thanks for your feedback!
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Thank you for updating us on your final results, or lack there of unfortunately. :-/

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It is rather confusing to me as the new Medically trained woman is going by what the other one wrote down and her records said I had 6 matrix and 3 skin tightening and some were combined and sometimes alone so I really don't know for sure. I was basically going by what I saw on a video on REFIRM... the original plan was to build up the collegen with six treatments which would then give me better results from some filler either Juvaderm or I think it's radiense...

Meanwhile, after I started that, I found the woman who does these microcurrent tx and the results are dramatic from her personal before/after pictures. I didn't want to start that without finishing this first.

I don't see any place in the middle of these threads to upload pictures but I found a place here called 'REVIEWS" of Matrix and that's where I will share them after I get the last Matrix; (I could leave a note here) however, I'm not waiting another six months as the jowls, fat pads or whatever they are are still there and it is really bothering me and like you said, this tx isn't going to fix that.

I'm not getting any younger so I'm not waiting another six months for the subtle change I have yet to see on myself or anyone else on this website; as soon as I get the last Matrix tx and per BOTH estheticians recommendations as well, I'm going to Josephine Ramos to get six micocurrent she combines with some peels geared to your skin. I was really impressed with the one treatment I had with her; most of all, her personal before/after pictures are dramatic but both she and the new Matrix esthetician say to finish the Matrix before doing that as it creates a better platform to get best results. Hope that is clear.

This is how it is described: " the “non-surgical face lift” this treatment uses micro electric stimulation to tone the underlying muscles of your face, increasing circulation and releasing collagen to lift and sculpt your features in a way that takes years off you appearance. Totally relaxing and painless."
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Thanks for the follow up.  Definitely let us know of you see improvements over the next 6 months.   Ematrix is not marketed for skin tightening.  It's for scars and texture improvement. The maker of ematrix (syneron) has a product called Refirme that they market for skin tightening.   You can go to the syneron site to find out more.  I can't speak to what Is different about the machines or settIngs that would differentiate the outcome.  Can't wait to hear what happens :).  Good luck. 
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Forgot to mention, it is also VERY PAINFUL even with numbing creme. I have had 5 to 7 treatments and sometimes it was called "skin tightening" and/or matrix from $75 to $150...last was level 55 with 195 passes and if there is a result, it is very very subtle and from reading various comments on Matrix, it seems that it takes six months to really see result which I'm told is building of collegen below the surface.
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GFGB, Sorry to not get back here sooner but I couldn't find the page so much e-mail piles up. At first I thought there was some immediate improvement but then I think it was just my face was a little swollen so it looked like these fat pads, and fine wrinkles were smoothed out. Now I'm not sure there is any immediate change and there is no marks or redness whatsoever. She said it is the MATRIX treatment but they go by a number system; not ABC. I think she said she did it at 55 with 195 passes but I have to find those notes to be sure if that means anything to you. Someone on another page here offered to crop my pictures so when I get that together, can I just post them here or do i have to start a new subject? I will share after the next tx in three weeks. Clearly this treatment is something that is to build collegen below the skin and takes time to see any change which I expect to be pretty subtle; by then as I said, I'm going to get this microcurrent tx I saw her before/after pictures and that is something I have more hope for seeing a change.
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If this isn't an issue for your skin type - it may be a moot point for you, period.

 

Hyperpigmentation is dark patching.  Hypopigmentation is white patching (absence of color).  Both are inflammatory responses.  I have both and the they became significant challenges after this procedure.  The hypo usually doesn't resolve.  They Hyperpigmentation is treatable, but with a lot of work and emphatic use of sunscreen and sun avoidance, etc.   My skin type is susceptable to to this - though I had taken such good care of it to maintain even coloring - that someone might not have realized what a problem it would be with lasers or laser-like procedures.  eMatrix is advertised as something that is good for all skin types.

 

It will be very interesting to hear what this person says.  Because they want to sell these services, they tend to minimize the risks or downplay the fact that many don't see any "significant" results.  In addition, everyone's response is different so that adds a variable layer.  Good luck.  Hopefully you like what you hear - or this person may have some other solutions for you.

 

 
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GFGB, I just realized I have the complimentary apt scheduled for today so I'm going to bring up all the issues you brought to my attention and tell her you still have hyperpigmentation which I'm not clear what you mean. Light and dark patches? It's in a MD office and the woman has medical training as well as esthetician. Also, I wonder what happened to Msruby who posted the pictures at the top. It's very possible all those first five were by people who reported 100% positive wanted to get the word out so makes me wonder how credible they are unless they provided REAL before/after photos. I have yet to see any positive photos about this on Real Self.
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Has anyone tried the home laser, Palovia ? I'm trying it now and I have 2 1/2 weeks to go to begin seeing results. I'm interested in knowing if anyone else has tried it.
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:).  It's interesting how things can translate (poorly) and how everyone has their sensitive points (which we all do).   Understood - and I see how you might have taken my message. 

 

When it comes to how people spend their money, how much they spend and spending whatever it takes to help feel positive - I'm definitely not one to pass judgment.  The money I've put into this stuff over the past two years is criminal so I'm not one to talk. 

 

I started my journey after a bad break-up.  However, if someone had said, you can keep your face the way it is and give every penny you have to charity. . . I would have done it it in a minute knowing what I now know :). 

 

Whatever your goal. . .if there was a $5,000 solution that I thought really worked - I'd definitely say treat yourself!!  If it was $10,000 and guaranteed to change your life - I'd say, sign me up too!  I did have $4,000 Total FX laser and it did work sort-of (but that's a whole 'nother story and it's not for everyone).

 

For what it's worth. . . my personal opinion is that the eMatrix dangles a carrot, but doesn't deliver. . . so "I chased that carrot" for 6 sessions and didn't get the results.  Some others on RealSelf have had good experiences and you should definitely hear what they did to get those results. 

 

For example: 1) At what level was their treatment - A, B, C?   2) Even within each level, there's a range of "strengths" that can be applied depending on the patient. 3) How many pulses for one session? (I think there is a 200 pulse and a 100 pulse package). 4) Which handpiece (small or larger grid - one is supposedly more ablative)?  

 

I think my provider was too aggressive - High C, small and large grid, 200 pulses, every 4- 6 weeks.I didn't make this info up - but I'm not sure what to believe anymore :(. As far as I know, the company condones this and we're not doctors.  Bottom line - I only saw damage and feel stupid because common sense should have told me that something wasn't right.  Unfortunately,  people who have not had agressive (enough) eMatrix treatments have complained that they saw no change at all.  It's a catch with this product.

 

Some providers aren't aware of the options or don't offer them so they'll say that we don't know what we're talking about :).  Again, others on RealSelf who have had success will be the ones to speak with further.

 

I'm a little too blunt for the sake of making a point - but I really, really do wish you good things and hope you are good to yourself.  I apologize if you thought I was suggesting anything other than the fact that this product is a crap shoot (in my opinion.)  Take care - GFGB
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GFGD, I'm glad we are clarifying this as now I see you actually were referring to them holding out a carrot on the Matrix not me chasing the whole spectrum of things out there. I also didn't want to be argumentative but I did need to express that I don't think we should be telling each other what we should or should not do when we clearly all know our own face and what is happening that we don't like. I think I just have to get pictures up somewhere so I can get advice about what procedure will solve the problem I'm trying to address which I'm not sure how to describe even. I hate it when people just bash each other and I hope I didn't come across like that either.

I wish the 50 plus percent people who do get benefit from ANYTHING would share their pictures as this mATRIX modality really seems speculative when you explain it at paragraph 6...VERY enlightening and shows how complex it is and that explains why everybody not getting same results as I said here or somewhere, this does'n't sound like something anyone can learn in one weekend and if it's only been out there a year, then seems like we are the guini pigs?
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I think eMatrix came out in 2010? Maybe 2009. It seemed to start picking up more steam about a year ago as more facilities started providing it and more people started hearing about it.  I personally don't think it's marketing claims/brochures are accurate and any information beyond the marketing verbiage is very weak and limited - including good pictures.  Looks like a lot of stock photos, etc.  If you Google eMatrix, you'll see the same vanilla stuff everywhere.  When I first had it done, the RealSelf approval rate was 100% and there were about five reviews.  Now it's at 64% with 45 reviews.

 

Sassy74 has written about her success and had pictures so you may want to check her out.  I followed her and at first, I thought I was having success and agreed.  Now, I'm more of the mindset that I was just seeing swelling that was making the skin look smoother.  In any event, the more sessions I had, the worse things got and some of it was latent - in that it seemed to show up later.  Whatever happend -  my skin does not look better and my hyperpigmentation is a big problem now. 

 

There is a guinea pig aspect to this - thus my initial comments about who is providing the services and what their credentials are. More goes into the proper use of these very powerful (and potentially damaging) machines than the consumer knows. The money comment wasn't about personal finances or choices- but rather, questioning if the technology is worth it at any price - no matter how little or much :(.   For some, it's absolutely worth it.  Good luck. 
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I thought this explanation about Matrix being "frequency" not laser tx by dermatologist was helpful and clearly she's saying it takes six months I ASSUME after final treatment to see the results and then I assume this collegen build up is long lasting like any collegen in our body?
http://www.realself.com/question/ematrix-compare-fraxel-laser
How Does EMatrix Compare to Fraxel Laser?
eMatrix also uses focused fractional energy but it is Radio Frequency energy, not laser. The thermal response is not confined to a column as laser is - it tends to spread out more broadly beneath the top layer of the skin, so you get the collagen response without a direct corresponding level of external damage to the skin.

The company has termed the effect as "sublative" in that much more is going on than you actually see....somewhat like a pyramid shape as the heat energy fans out after it penetrates the skin. For the most part, RF energy doesn't stir up melanin production so it's seen as a more desirable treatment for some skin types.

Collagen response continues after the superheating from either system for about 6 months at which time what you see is the final response.

As far as stopping the signs of aging, we continue to age no matter what process we apply to our skin, and collagen breakdown will continue as before - With Fraxel or eMatrix you just got a push back in time with the new elastin and collagen fibers your body created as a result of the heat energy.

Web reference: Http://rebeccafitzgeraldmd.com/ematrix.html
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Here's are some question to ask at your visit 1) Would she/he be taking before and after pictures of you  to look at together?  2) How will the two of you gauge improvement?  3) How will you know that collagen has continued to rebuild 6 months out?  (Frankly, I'm curious as to how they tested those claims and with how many people, etc.)

 

Also, do you have the information about the settings used for the treatments you've already had?  Since you didn't get the results you'd like, this may be important information.

 

Yes, they are different technologies. . . and I'm not a doctor so I don't want to get past my scope of expertise here.  There are actually a couple versions of Fraxel, and both are designed to ablate the surface more than eMatrix.  One version ablates over a series of sessions, the other does it in one shot but requires more down time - but both are advertised as safer than traditional C02 because of the "fractional" approach to ablation.

 

eMatrix supposedly only ablates about 5% of the surface (though I was told that the smaller grid that not everyone offers, ablates more) -  and the rest is done beneath the surface.  The idea is to stimulate collagen building by:creating an "injury" - an idea which isn't completely unique to eMatrix.  RF isn't exactly new either.  Thermage is Radio Frequency too. . .but used for skin tightening.  The jury has been out as to whether or not Thermage is worth it either.  In fact, several years ago Thermage was causing Fat Atrophy (something that is pretty well documented)  Providers were apparently thinking that if a little was good, then a lot was great and they were cranking up the "heat". That's when RF started getting a bad rap.  

 

eMatrix and providers say that this is impossible because it can't reach the fat level (or something like that).  This absolutely may be true. They also say that about IPL which people say can cause fat atrophy.  Anyway,  I'm not a doctor so I can't speak to this and it's an tricky topic anyway.

 

I was told about the 6 months ongoing collagen building when I signed up, but at 3 months was told that after about a month to six weeks from my last session, the majority of the results would have shown up when I had my follow-up visit.  Again, I'm still curious as to how everyone is validating all these claims - but I'm clearly a cynic :).

 

Use your best judgment, follow your gut.  It tells you a lot!   Again, this may work for you with the right provider.

 

 
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Hi, I didn't think you meant to sound judgmental as my first response was to thank you and all that but then I began to feel misunderstood and I was feeling like you sounded like my Uncle who was very critical my spending what was really a small amount of money for a very big procedure I had (through referral) in Costa Rica in 1996 which changed my life and how I felt about myself for the better. And that's real. I am so greatful for people like yourself who do take the time to share their stories for better or worse. In 2010, I also was taken advantage of by one doctor in Clearwater who charged a lot and did very little. We do need to be more aware of the potential dangers and consequences and the money changers too. Since Costa Rica, I hadn't done anything until 09 when someone talked me into buying a galvanic spa I mostly regret so I really want to research things before i jump into anything else. That may work but I don't want to spend $60/month rest of my life on their product so I'm researching other things that are out there before I jump into anything else. I guess I'm sensitive to the phrase that I'm chasing a carrot when I'm merely trying to do something positive for myself and it takes a lot of effort and research and yes, trial and error and hopefully, websites like this can help minimize the mistakes.
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Hi chellamia, Absolutely no judgement intended whatsoever.   Sorry if it came across that way.  Good luck to you.  Ive actually met several people on this site in person and we all wish we had not gone down this path or done anything. Several of us have had revision work and wish someone had been more honest about the dangers - and how different procedures can affect the outcome of another procedure.  Again, good luck to you whatever you decide to do. I'm sure there are many on this site who can provide you the guidance you are seeking.  Take care.  
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GFGB:
I'm sorry you still have those marks, how terrible, maybe you have overdone it and now your skin has become overly sensitive? I guess I'm lucky as I could have had a terrible experience like you; has it healed yet? I was paying $75 to $150/treatment; not $500. ...I almost got fraxal a few years ago; but when I saw the massive burn you go through, I canceled it...looks too risky for me and I actually have good skin; I'm working on a very specific area that is starting to sag.

I must say that I don't think any of us really come to this website to be told to “quit while we're ahead” and that we are “chasing a carrot” by a stranger who doesn't even know us nor ever seen us. Maybe you are trying to help but I think we should focus on helping each other; not on making assumptions or judgments; this is very personal; no wonder people are so secretive. All this is very new to me and I try to simply share my experiences. When I can figure out how to show before/after pictures the way I want, I will do so as without that; it's just talk as far as I'm concerned. Some people here have obviously other motives. I would think this Refirm Matrix device has worked on some people but it is obviously VERY INCONSISTENT and for that reason, I wouldn't recommend it but there are other procedures that do have good and amazing results. I think it is telling the dermatologist tried it only six times and sold it as maybe he really didn't know how to use the machine properly?

 I also use the tretinoin periodically; not all the time as one would always walk around with peeling skin; my mother also liked nivia too; She was very beautiful and looked like Rita Hayworth . I use to do hair and when she was sitting in my chair at about the age I am now, I told her all she needed was a neck lift and by God, she went and secretly had something done and it turned out to be the best thing she could ever do as she continued to NEVER look her age until she died at 85.

Meanwhile, I do have confidence in the micro currents as used by another esthetician I saw once plus her personal untouched before and after pictures so I'm looking forward to trying that procedure once a week for six weeks; includes peel and dermabrasion too.

BTW, I did take a vacation and without going into detail, after all was said and done, I would rather have used that money on some cosmetic procedure and why is that? Vacations are overrated at this point in my life; they come and go but I have to wake up and look in the mirror for the rest of my life; and now that I'm over 60, it's time I start taking better care of my skin as I don't plan to go quietly into old age.
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Chellamia,  

 

One more thing. . .I don't recommend going to another esthetician for this procedure.  There are many very good esthetician's out there, but this is A LOT of energy going through your precious skin. . . and if it could actually do what they are claiming it can do - then I'd like to know there's a medical background behind the handpiece - one with lots of insurance!  While I personally just don't think this treatment is worth the money for what it does, if you stand a shot - only a medically trained person should administer treatment - and even that's a stretch as I found out.  These machines, who can operate them, and the centers that provide them -are far too under regulated, unmonitored, etc.  No one cares. 

By the way - I met with a well known laser derm who did 6 eMatrix treatments on his wife. He didn't see any results and sold the machine.  Keep in mind, this is a derm who rarely meets a laser he doesn't like - he has 40 of the top ones in his office  - so eMatrix must be pretty weak.   

 

 
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Hello Chellamia,

 

I wouldn't be disappointed you didn't have the marks. . . I still have them and they aren't particularly attractive.  It is possible that she didn't have you on a high enough setting to get results.  Do you know if she did A, B or C and at what level?  That said, I would hazard a guess to say that 50% of doctors polled would say that this machine is useless. Another 25% would say they do see results and the remaining 25% don't really see results, but they bought the machine and have to recoup their money so they keep offering the treatments.  I've been to enough PS and Derms to have sorted through this mystery. The other issue is that it is very expensive - average $500/treatment and most of the time the doctors don't even do the procedure. The patient ROI is not worth it - at all.  The doctor ROI helps them buy their Mercedes!


Here's what I finally figured out  - It doesn't matter if it's Laser, RF (eMatrix), IPL (all of which I've tried). . . they all have the potential to do more damage than good - and the collagen building is so nominal - if any.  It's a load of expensive crap.  I was originally told I would see improvements for up to 6 months.  After 6 treatments, I went in for an appt at the 3 month mark - very unhappy with my skin. I asked if I would see any improvement and was told "Oh no, it's been three months - any improvement would have been seen by now."  Amazing how the story changes when convenient.

 

My advice at this point is quit while you are ahead and stop chasing the "dream carrot" that is being dangled.  I had beautiful skin.  I kept trying more things to fix the damage done by the last "best thing out there".  My skin started to breakout - which it never did, get rashy, and burn. It also has some scarring. Keep in mind, I went to one of the top laser docs in OC.

 

You know what, once I quit all of this crap, my skin started to improve and my facial contours look better. I think all this stuff was severely upsetting my skin's balance and doctors don't coach to proper care or discuss the additional care and hydration required. The hyperpigmentation issues I now have will take another year or to fix - by leaving my skin alone and using SPF like a mad woman.

 

I use the Clarasonic system (sensitive brush) - which is doing wonders, light glycolic peels and sometimes light TCAs and/or Tretinoin, the Kinerase firming creams, Elta Sunscreen and I slather Nivea (yes, cheap Nivea) on my face at night as often as possible. It was good enough for my beautiful grandmother - it's good enough for me! 

 

I really gauge the use of peels, exfoliation, and tretinoin and do not use daily.  Overdoing these is dangerous so if my skin feels sensitive, I back off until things feel better.  Healed skin operates a lot better than "zapped" skin that continues to suffer the "injury" that these machines do - even when they say all that "injury" is causing beneficial collagen building.  Whatever!!!  is what I say.

 

Good luck. . .save your money on worthless "Syneron" product treatments and take a fabulous vacation!!!!

 

 

 

 

 
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I had 6 of the matrix and 2 skin tightening treatments all under the title of "Refirm" since last November and my skin never had those marks like yours which is what I was told by another esthetician is suppose to happen and I'm very disappointed as I don't see any noticable results. She also said the numbing creme can lessen the effect. The new esthetician in the clinic is going to give me two complimentry treatments which I think is nice but so far I wouldn't recommend it and obviously good results is very dependent on the person's skill. I just hope it did something to build this collegen they talked about and that's suppose to take time. When I figure out how to crop the pictures, I'll be happy to share them. I am going to get this microcurrent treatments and if I get the results that I see from her other before/after pictures, I'm going to buy one of the home devices...probably the one by NuFace.
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I didn't go back for another. Honestly, it did little more than a dermabrasion. I also wasn't aware how restrictive sun exposure would be so I requested a refund and received one. I honestly don't think it's worth it and I saw no difference, really, in skin texture either. A lot of people say after one treatment their acne is better (mine got worse) and their skin looks more refined. I saw nothing.
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