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Lip Lift After Disappointment with Permalip Lip Implants - Antwerp, Belgium

ORIGINAL POST

I have always disliked my thin upper lip from a...

Gemma1988
WORTH IT$2,495
I have always disliked my thin upper lip from a young age. It got to the point where I hated it so much, that 2 years ago I started experimenting with fillers. Still dissatisfied, I moved onto thicker Permalip lip implants last year.
The implants gave me the natural fullness I wanted. What must have been swelling, I was convinced was actually my lip. The swelling-that-I-didn't realise-was-swelling had pushed my lip upwards, acting like a lip lift! I thought I'd hit the jackpot, getting 2 surgeries in one.
But once most of the swelling subsided from my implants (after 2 months), my lips were left looking too much like before - only thicker. I was unhappy because my lips still pointed downwards, and my lip still curled under when I smiled. Just it was more pronounced after the implants. You must remember if you are considering this surgery that lip implants ONLY thicken up what you already have! They do not work miracles on the shape too, that's just the swelling doing it's thing. Lip implants= thickness. Okay?
Don't get me wrong - the procedure had been done well! It was expertly done. But I only realised then, after I had changed the thickness, that it was the SHAPE that was the problem. It's like building a house - if you start out with bad foundations then you are not going to be happy with the final result.
It wasn't the thinness that caused my lip to roll under and hide when I smiled - it was the shape. My upper lip faced downwards and drooped at the cupid's bow. It curled under when I smiled and needed curled OUT - hence my desire for the lip lift, which aims to pull the lip into an outward facing position. I'd learned now that any thickness added would not bring my lip higher or make it upwards facing, it would just add volume what I already had. And when I disliked what I already had, I definitely did not want to exaggerate it by making it bigger.
Anyway, it's day 1 and I am in a McDonalds in Antwerp. I have just been operated on by Dr. Bart van de Ven.
A month ago I reached him on facialfeminization.eu, sent him photos and explained what I wanted. I paid €50 for a quote, and here I am. I DID MY RESEARCH! This guy does 3 lip lifts a day but specialises in rewiring jaws and noses and all the rest of it. The lip lift procedure is nothing for him. He has done so many fantastic things for people trapped inside the wrong body - I encourage anyone to view his stunning before and afters. I was so amazed at his natural yet glowing results that I simply knew he was the surgeon for me.
I went in for my consultation yesterday - where he decided removing 3mm of skin was enough - and operation today. I was surrounded by the loveliest nurses i have ever met. I was feeling dizzy after the op and they let me nap in a bed for an hour until I came round.
I was in pain at first but luckily I am doping myself up on ibuprofen. I don't look like a plastic surgery victim like I did after my lip implants (feel free to look at my pictures and gasp in horror). I just have a bit of tape under my nose.
I keep getting asked if I fell on my face. I say yes, because that's much easier than "actually I flew to Belgium to pay some guy a load of money to take away 3mms of my skin".
I'll keep you posted!
Off home tonight, can't wait to see my family and boyfriend, it's quite lonely being a foreigner.

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Dr Bart van de Ven

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Excellent! Friendly, professional, knew what he was doing. He does this in his sleep (probably) I felt like I was in very safe hands and can already tell the results will be good!

Replies (21)

January 23, 2014
Would love to see more photos as you heal! Looks great already
January 24, 2014
Thank you so much! I will be sure to keep updated!
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January 23, 2014
You are pretty girl but i think you look even better after lip lift. I saw yours pictures before, around 2 months ago and i thought: oh this girl need a lip lift because after perpalip yours lip looked pushed down. Now proportion your face looks muchmuch prettier :) congratulation! I am experiment with a filler and i think same as you... my lip isfuller but too low :( i will do lip lift v soon as well :)
January 24, 2014
Thank you so much for saying that, it reassures me I did the right thing :) I know what you mean - after Permalip it didn't look right because of the 'pushed down' lip shape I had at the cupid's bow. Thankfully the lip lift really pulled my cupid's bow up into a higher position, over the implant perfectly. It looks more feminine and normal to me. I guess everyone's lips are different and need different approaches! Someone else with a thin lip might only need filler or permalip to get that perfect look - but unfortunately mine needed a lip lift too. I am pleased that you are trying filler first, because that might solve your lip problem. But if not, I seriously recommend a lip lift before permalip. I kind of wished I'd done the lip lift first, because I might have been happy just with that and without spending £1000+ on a permalip procedure.
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January 24, 2014
I read a lot about lip lift. One specialist from usa said that fillers are not right for women if they have no teeth show when theirs lips are slighty parted. I didnt know about this before a hyaluronic acid. I thought that filler lift my upper lip. Of course is a bit bigger and nicer but i hate my lips when i open them. They look very old and tired then and is no teeth show when i am speaking :( and this mistake do a lot of women... but dont worry. I see your point but you look very nice and lip lift make you soo pretty :) and i love your eyes... soo big! :D i hope your all worries about implantinside will be ok with a healling time xx
January 24, 2014
I've heard that too... I think if you have a thin lip and no tooth show then that is the worst, because you can't fill it because you'll be making the tooth show problem worse. I would really recommend a lip lift, and then maybe you could get filler once it's healed to get the perfect pout :D You hate your lips when you open them, I hated smiling. My lip would just curl under into my mouth and disappear, it looked so unfeminine! But yes I urge you to get a lip lift! Take the plunge, you won't regret it and you'll feel so much better about yourself [RS bleep] ps. Thank you for your kind words! Fingers crossed I'll heal perfectly (and the implants)
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January 23, 2014
You are gorgeous! And I love your reasoning about having to build a good foundation before you can building the house. :) Do you still have your implants in, or were they removed prior to the lip lift?
January 24, 2014
Thank you so much! I can't wait to see it once it's healed. It stings to smile as I am only on day 2 of healing, but it's hard not to because I'm so relieved I don't have to poke at my lip in the mirror any more because it looks just how I wanted it! I still have my implants in there, which worries me a little because once I'm healed, what if they look funny? I should have got the lip lift first really... but I was just so desperate to change my top lip :(
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January 23, 2014
I live in brighton in uk. I would like to ask you how many pounds you paid for all procedure of lip lift in belgium.? I mean encludes of travel, hotel and surgery? And i would like to cut a bit more than 3 mm of skin so your doctor is very conservative or he could to do itmore like i would.. what do you think?Because i really want to show my front upper teeth by lip lift... and no only 1mm but i want it be a visible around 3-4mm when my lips are parted.. i will very apriciate for your answer because itis very hard to talk someone from uk... :(
January 24, 2014
Hi again :) I spent £50 return travel via megabus from Manchester-Antwerp (it's a 13 hour journey and not much fun - I only did this to save money), I spent £100 on two nights at the Middelheim Guest House, £2,495 for surgery and £20 for metro tickets and snacks on both days (I took my own food). So in total £2,650. It's a lot of money but I thought it was worth it. Dr Bart said he would only take 3mm of skin away because any more and I might look a bit weird. My lip-nose distance was 14mm, which isn't that long, but you must remember that the reason I got a lip lift was to change my lip shape, not to reduce the distance. If your lip is longer than 14mm then I'm sure Dr Bart would remove more than 3mm to get the best results. He offers an online consultation service on his website for 50 euros, where you can send him clear good quality photos from all angles, ask any questions. He got back to me really quickly. If you ask him if he thinks more than 3mm skin removal is possible, and tell him you want tooth show, he will give an informative reply I'm sure. Hope this helped :)
January 24, 2014
Ah sorry, not £2495, it was 2495 in euros. which comes out as £2050, so £2200 total :)
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January 24, 2014
Thank you soo much! It is really helpfull :) :* i know it is a lot but in london miss mills she want 2700 pounds for lift and 150p. per consultation.... lol your doctor will be in london 15th march i started strongly think about him now :) i already saved money for this but i have to wait first to remove my wisdom tooth end of february at hospital :P one more question... how long since consultation you were waiting until a surgery? Xx
January 24, 2014
I hate when surgeons charge loads for consultations! One of the reasons i went to Belgium was because the only surgeons over here who offered lip lifts had ridiculous consultation prices (£400 for a guy in London, seriously?!) I just wanted it all over and done with so paid for a consultation then surgery a day apart in Belgium! Dr Bart may be in London but he might just be offering consultations! If you want to see him then you should, but I didn't feel it was necessary as I'd already sent pics and got his approval for surgery online :) To answer your question: mid-December I sent him photos explaining what I disliked, what I wanted and proposed dates. A day later he approved and gave me a price quote. 1 Jan he sent me my schedule (20 Jan consultation, 21 Jan surgery). He does consultations a day before surgery, and his surgery days are either Tuesday or Thursday. So if you are getting surgery on a Tuesday, your consultation will be on a Monday. But to be honest it wasn't much of a consultation - more of a measure-up final plan for surgery, get given creams etc, payment. It's not like a normal consultation because you know you're getting the surgery already. I hate normal consultations because they're so expensive and you don't know what kind of person you'll be getting. Once I met up with a rude surgeon in my hometown to inquire about lip lift. He pretty much just said "no". That consultation was apparently worth £100 but I refused to pay because he was so inflexible and smug when he shot me down, flicking through a bunch of cheques on his desk as he spoke to me. Well, he never got my cheque! Haha. [RS bleep]
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January 24, 2014
Haha perfect! I agree: 100 for one word "no"??? Lol and it was soo funny when you said that if someone ask you "did you fall on your face" :D it is good idea! I was going to say that i had surgery because i had any cysts or anything wrong. Anyway I am going to take off 1 or 2 weeks at my work. The truth is people always look bad at beauty surgeries and tell you " are you crazy?! You look good enough"... :/ but as you said: why not to feel better and prettier when we look in our mirror :) x did you stay in Belgium only 2 nights? Because what i mean: everyone say always about 5 days to take off a stitches... :) i am so glad you keep answering to me [RS bleep] and sorry for my not perfect english but i live in uk only 5 years... have a good afternoon [RS bleep] :)
January 24, 2014
Oh no is Miss Mills charging 2700? I spoke to her secretary Toni and she was saying that the lip lift should cost no more than 2200? I hope she isn't mistaken as don't want to pay close to 3 grand ! xx
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January 24, 2014
I sent email question abou lip lift and someone write me back that 2700 + 150 CONSULT. ... maybe it was mistake i dont know but it scared me ! If it is 2200 is still ok... are you sure about it?
January 25, 2014
Hahaha well besides the "no" there was a bit of awkward faffing about with my lip and looking perplexed... Still, I did that to myself in the mirror every day! I wasn't going to pay someone else to do it. It's annoying because you can see from my results that a lip lift was exactly what I wanted/needed, I kind of feel that because I'm young he waved me off as being a vain little girl. But if something bothers you to the point where it's clouding your happiness then its a problem! I'm crossing my fingers that you get your lip lift too because I think it'd make a world of difference to you inside and out :) Haha! Well in Belgium there are bikes everywhere so I sometimes mixed things up and said "I fell off a bike in Belgium and cut up my nose." I totally know what you mean, there's such a stigma with surgery :( But you deserve to love yourself, everybody does! The thing that annoys me about the people who say "you look fine as you are" etc, they always think that it's other peoples opinions of your appearance that matter! They just don't get that it's a personal choice for you and you only. The amount of times I heard protests of "but everyone thinks you're pretty!" - it doesn't change your own self-image, just makes you feel bad. Yep 2 nights in Belgium! I think my stitches are dissolvable except for one?... I'm hoping that will fall out by itself at some point lol :/ Your English is perfect honestly! Have a good afternoon too, hope this helps :) [RS bleep]
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January 26, 2014
I think it will disolve itself because if not he have to tell you you have to back after a 5 or 6 days to remove it ;)) dont worry a stitches are smallest problem you could to have any doctor here can do it :) but as I said I think it is desolving itself :) It is good because you save your money with hotel :) And of couse you help me a lot! I am very happy is someone I can to talk about it and we are simillar age. I was worry that most of surgeons will laught at me because I am still a young and my lips are ''youghtfull'' :/ and you gave me a hope ! :) I have to tell you: I already sent a proposal request to Dr Bart van de Ven !!! I am sooo stressfull because I really want he accept my request...! Anyway how are you, how yours healling goes on? :) and what with a implant? when I look on picture it looks fine, but maybe it is visble in other light..? I am wainting for more of yours picture soon :) And dont forget you are pretty and very kind to me :) If everything will go fine with my surgery appontment my sister probably go with me there because she want to visit Belgium :) and I am happy my boyfriend is acceptting my wishes about a lip lift. Of course first he said I dont need it at all but when I showed him what it is and explain how I will look like after he said: ok, you right, you will look even prettier after :) Good night [RS bleep] :) Keep positive!
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January 23, 2016
U look great!
UPDATED FROM Gemma1988
2 days post

Day 2

Gemma1988
It is day 2 and I am healing slowly. Healing from a lip lift is not as traumatic as healing from Permalip. When I got Permalip implants, my lips swelled up like balloons, and I could only eat through a straw for a few days because I was only able to open my mouth wide enough to make a tiny straw sized gap. It hurt a lot as well. Once the ibuprofen began to wear off in my sleep, I would wake up and have to take more.

Lip lift healing isn't so bad. I have very minor swelling under the nose area which aches a little sometimes, but if I'm watching a show or something I barely notice. I can't yawn, laugh or smile without it stinging, but it is getting easier each day as I heal.

I am both excited and concerned about how I will look when I am properly healed (I am hoping in a week's time). I didn't get my Permalip implants removed before the procedure - and although it looks like my surgeon has lifted the lip nicely over the top of my implant - I am worried this will have an effect on my lovely new look. I am afraid with my lip pulled tighter, this might show the implants more, and I don't want to look unnatural. It's ironic how we do these unnatural cosmetic procedures yet the number one aim is to look natural and like we've not had anything done! So yes that is my one worry.
I think I'll be okay though - as I said there is only a little swelling and everything looks good from what I can see. Fingers crossed.

I have attached an image that shows all the stages of my lip, from the very beginning! I was going to include 'lip with filler', 'lip with swelling from permalip' but I thought I'd keep it simple. I can't believe my top lip was ever that thin, it barely existed! I hope this is interesting for people trying to make up their minds anyway.

Replies (12)

January 24, 2014
Congratulation on your LL Steph91. I am so happy for you. Hopefully the Permalip only enhances your final results. Thanks for sharing. Blessings!
January 24, 2014
Thank you so much! I hope so too!
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January 24, 2014
hi Steph did you get put under anaesthetic or was it numbing injections for it? x it looks great im dead jealous!! defo gonna see about getting this done x whos going to remove your stitches?? x
January 25, 2014
Hi Kat :) I could have chosen general anaesthetic but it didn't seem worth it as it would have costed another 1000 euros for them to hire me an anaesthetist, and for an overnight stay at the hospital. The numbing injection hurt like hell, they slid a very thin needle under my nose area and dragged it along. After that he poked under one of my nostrils with what I imagine was a scalpel (I kept my eyes firmly shut) and it still hurt so he injected more anaesthetic there. But before the operation the nurse gave me some "legal drugs" which was a tablet that melted on my tongue and I was spacing out during the whole thing. It was very surreal but not unpleasant. Thank you so much for your kind words! It's been such a journey to get this far. I got dissolvable stitches all under my nose but there is a blue knotted stitch under my septum which I assume will drop out at some point. I hope so anyway, nobody really said anything about it! x
January 25, 2014
Great review! And it looks really beautiful. Congrats!
January 25, 2014
Thank you!
January 30, 2014
You are a very pretty English Rose. Don't ever do any more surgery on your face! You don't need it. Your results look perfect.
January 30, 2014
Thank you so much :)
January 30, 2014
After the lip lift, do your upper lip curl up now? Because i have the same problem my upper lips curls downward when i smile. I'm thinking of having the lip lift but i dont want scar. Really scared. Thanks
January 30, 2014
Hello lovely, yes it does curl up, but not enough to stop it disappearing into my mouth when smiling. If you go ahead with it, get 5mm skin removed at least, trust me! I only got 3mm and I know I was so close to getting it lifted to what I wanted. The scar isn't even noticeable on me and it's only been 1 week, you shouldn't worry :) thank you!
January 31, 2014
Thank you ps you are very beautiful..
February 2, 2014
Thank you! :)x
UPDATED FROM Gemma1988
9 days post

Day 9

Gemma1988
I'm not entirely sure I'm happy with how this is healing. As the swelling around the wound reduces, my lip is dropping a little... it barely looks like I had anything done. I wanted a subtle change, but I feel like this may turn out to be too subtle.

I had to get filler removed days before my surgery (it was a lot and I looked like a duck) and I'm wondering if this is just down to me not being used to seeing my lips this natural and un-plump?.. I'm just a bit disheartened because I thought a lip lift would stop my biggest problem - my upper lip disappearing into my mouth when I smile - but the lip lift isn't enough. I think in a few weeks I will consider a little amount of filler in my now outwards facing upper lip.

If anybody is considering this surgery, I would say get 5mm skin removed minimum. I feel my surgeon was conservative, I wish I had insisted on more skin being removed. My lip-nose gap has been reduced by 3mm and thankfully my lip at faces upwards now, instead of my cupid's bow drooping down. I'll give it time to heal before I make my final verdict!

Replies (15)

January 31, 2014
wow Steph91 the scar looks almost imperceptible. Congratulations on a great result!
January 31, 2014
It is a beautifully smooth scar I have to say! You can tell Dr Bart knows what he's doing .
January 31, 2014
I agree about the beautiful smoooooothe scar. Blessings.
January 31, 2014
Looking great Steph! I've finally booked in for permalip now and hoping that will be enough to shorten the distance between my nose and lip. Kind of wishing id booked myself in for a lip lift now instead lol. [RS bleep]
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January 31, 2014
Meldog... permalip will not shorten your distsnce between lip and nose...! It will make a lip fuller but won't to lift it up :( and is big possibility your lip will look even more drooped or longer... blieve me... ! Please watch a short video about lips made by dr ricardo rodriguez on youtube. Tape a " lip lift dr rodriguez" please do it before you go to do permalip [RS bleep] and decide after it xx
February 1, 2014
I know I am so worried about this! :( I've seen that video lol (I've spent way too much time researching lip lifts) although my lip is still going to be far away from my nose I'm thinking that with it being a little thicker it will make my face look more in proportion (won't know until I try though I guess) I am just so scared of getting the lip lift in case the surgeon cuts too much skin away and I'm left with a gummy smile (I have big teeth as it is so it will not be a good look!) If I do not feel permalip is enough I'll definitely be getting the lip-lift in 6 months time or so when its all healed. And ideally I'll go to Bart Van de Ven as he has done such a nice job on Steph with her permalip implant in. In all fairness I probably do need the lip-lift a lot more than the permalip but the thought scares me so thought I would edge myself in with the permalip first instead! Booked in for next Friday, I'll be sure to let you know if it's helped![RS bleep]
February 1, 2014
Hi again Mel ^^ If you think permalip is what you need then go for it! But if fillers aren't making you happy then I don't think permalip will, because it does not change the shape of your lip or the height. During healing your lip will be all over the place, but eventually it will rest like it did before, only plumper. Permalip I would say is a much more invasive procedure than a lip lift, with more down time and a tougher recovery. Less things can go wrong with a lip lift too. But like you said, if you have a gummy smile then you won't want to lift it... however when I got permalip it did nothing for the nose-mouth gap. It was a lot of money and I kind of wish I hadn't got it done. It feels tight when I smile sometimes, and it grosses me out how I can feel the implant in there with my fingers. Sure it made my lips plumper, but make sure you know what you're doing Mel!! I don't want you to regret it and wish you'd kept the money for a lip lift and some filler like me now. I'm not trying to put you off, I just want you to be very very careful and sure :) If you do go ahead with it, please share pics. I'd really like to see. Love to you [RS bleep]
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February 1, 2014
Hi meldog and steph :) i am looking for surgeon in my country poland in warsaw.... a lot of doctor is doing it and i saw few works and it is look good. And polish prices are much lower because no more than 1,000 pounds. Cross fingers... i resignated with dr bert because he only sent me a email with price ... 600 more than for steph and no any more nice informations... just "please book you surgery date online and pay 1000 pounds deposit"... :/ i asked him about a details of plan my surgery about 5mm of skin cut... i still didnt get any message from him... :/ he is not too kind... i dont trust him then....
February 1, 2014
hey Steph and Jolka :) oh no Steph what you have said there has worried me! Is it uncomfortable the tightness and do you think you'll end up getting the implants removed at some point? I don't know what to do now I'm already booked in so may as well have the consultation for permalip I suppose. Just really do not want to regret getting it and spending all that money! xx
February 1, 2014
Best of luck Jolka! I'm sure the surgeon in Poland will be great from the sounds of things. You'll have to let me know how it goes :) Oh no really, I understand he is probably very busy but if you have paid 50 pounds for him to examine your photos I would expect more of a response from him than that! And it's strange that he quoted you 600 more than steph :/ maybe his prices have gone up! [RS bleep]
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February 1, 2014
I really dont know why 600 more but she haf a surgery one or two weeks ago... anyway he even doesnt answer me .... [RS bleep] i hope you will make a good decision what to do with your lips. Good luck with it and as steph said: waiting for any news [RS bleep] and it is sad to hear that steph is a bit unhappy with her lip lift.... [RS bleep]
February 1, 2014
Hey Mel and Jolka :) It's strange that Dr. Bart charged you 600 more than me! Did you ask for general anaesthetic or local? GA is more expensive because they need to hire an anaesthetist and ask for hospital fees. Maybe he thought you wanted GA by mistake? Dr. Bart is an excellent surgeon and as you can see from my scar he definitely finds lip lifts easy. His work is beautiful. But I did feel like I was in a factory. I sort of went in, paid, got the surgery, and they kicked me out lol. But no matter how uncaring they were being, I feel it was just because they were so confident in Dr. Bart's expertise that there was no need to faff around. He does speak very bluntly in his e-mails, but at the same time I think I prefer an expert who speaks matter-of-fact, than a bad surgeon sucking up to me and being insincere. At the end of the day these people want your money, and it's nice to think they really care about your health and well-being, but really you just have to find the surgeon who gives the best results so you know you can trust them :) And Mel, it was only for the first few months they felt tight when I smiled, they seem to have loosened up now. But sometimes I do worry about them. They are silicon tubes... in my lips... forever. You know? It's just quite difficult to get over lol, or maybe that's just me being dramatic. I'm sorry you paid £50 and were unhappy Jolka :( He replied to all my e-mails really fast, even on Christmas day! Strange. Good luck to both of you! Make sure you think about every little thing and if you have any questions please just ask :) [RS bleep]
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February 1, 2014
hi Steph... I am not dissapointment of bigger price because maybe it is because my lip lift need more cut, show teeth and some more planning perfect cutting... but he really didnt answer on any my question :( even what he think about 5 mm... and it was a question sent with my photos... after this he sent me only receipt with 1500 per surgery (honorarium) and + 1595 per hospital.... he wrote ''Dear Ms Wawiernia, Thank you for your e-mail. Attached you can find the proposal for the procedures you asked for. You can book your operation yourself and check for availability through the following webpage: http://facialfeminization.eu/practical/book-an-operation/. Kind regards, Rachel Simons, personal assistant Dr Bart van de Ven'' After this email I wasn't sure he read my message and ideas, so i sent second email to him with question what he think about 5 mm... still no any answer :( i just cant feel comfortable with him... what is not mean he is not a good and experienced specialist of lip lift... maybe just not for me :) i am not worry about 50 pounds, it is go to charity anyway :) hehe I wrote already to two doctors about online consultation from poland and they just said ''yes we do it. please send a pictures'' and no charge for it :) maybe at the end they will add it to full cost of surgery :) now I am wainting and looking right surgeon to me :) lip lift in poland is cost 3 000 zł - its around 700 pounds, but it is normal cost, in poland surgeries are just cheaper because if they be too expensive nobody do it then lol :D example: one month of work in poland at tesco checkout is 1,300 zł so if surgery cost 3,500zł it is still a loooot of money :) doctors are same good as here or USA :) I didnt think about surgery in poland before because I wanted do it near my home... but if I was ready go to belgium so why not to poland and visit my grandma at same time lol :D Oh i near forgot !!! You look georgous ! :) after my lip lift I will still add some filler as well :D
February 3, 2014
That is so cheap!!! Make sure you really trust your surgeon and see pics of before and afters. I wish Id gone to Poland now haha! I hope it all goes well for you if you go ahead, and if your lip still isn't right then yes go for filler!! I'm so glad I did :) thanks for your compliments too xx
February 1, 2016
You look stunning!! Did he use the same incision technique that other doctors do? I noticed your result is different than any one in this website! it doesn't look like the incisions that looks like this +++ if you get what I mean.