POSTED UNDER YAG Laser REVIEWS
Nd:yag 1064nm for Broken Capillaries on Nose: WARNING - Can Cause Scarring! - London, UK
ORIGINAL POST
Some background: I am 30 years old and have been...
Sophie8May 3, 2012
$201
Some background: I am 30 years old and have been suffering from moderate Rosacea for a few years and have sought various treatments with varied result. I had a series of IPL treatments two years ago, which initially helped, but then gradually my skin changed in texture, became much less elastic, more sensitive and rough (enlarged pores, more lines, more melasma etc). After having read about others with similar experiences on this forum I understood that this was due to the IPL and have ruled this out as a treatment. I also tried Pulsed Dye Laser, with bruising, with little results. My dermatologist suggested that this is due to the fact that my rosacea is not very severe and that the laser does not respond so well to smaller vessels.
The treatment: Realising that there is little I can do to radically improve my Rosacea, apart from antibiotics and observing a good diet and life style, I decided to just take care of a few persistent red veins on the side of my nose. My dermatologist recommended Nd:yag 1064 nm (I believe the make is Fotona). I had the treatment on Monday, it is now Thursday. The treatment was unpleasant and afterwards I was left with two hard blisters, on each side of my nose. These blisters burst by themselves - I believe in the shower - on the Tuesday and I was left with two scabs AND (to my horror) these scabs were formed in small indentations - looking as if there are chickenpox marks to be formed. I called my dermatologist who asked me to come in and see her. She calmly explained that this is very common (!), something which I was not at all informed about beforehand (would I have known I would never have undergone the procedure). She suggested we wait, let the scabs heal and fall off, and then lift the skin to make it even. She claims that it will go back to normal after this - something which I am VERY sceptical about. I have now read about others who were left with holes after burns - irreversible damage. I am absolutely devastated. From a few broken capillaries I am now left with potential pitted scars, for life. My advice to you: DO NOT DO IT! My dermatologist is, supposedly, one of the best in London. I did a lot of research before seeing her and she has years of experience. I wish someone would have told me about the risks.
Replies (49)
May 4, 2012
Hi Megan,
Thank you for your comment. I am still letting the wounds heal, using Aquaphor ointment and putting on an antibiotic cream that was prescribed to me by my dermatologist. On the one side of my nose it looks as if it is healing rather well but the other still has a scab which is in an indentation with raised redness circling it.
On Wednesday (9th) I will see my dermatologist who will review and if the skin needs lifting she will do so - and she mentioned it might need to be done a few times to get the skin perfectly even. However, when I spoke to her again yesterday she said it is likely that when the scabs fall off the skin will just be pink and that will go away by itself - which, at the moment, seems unlikely.
This means that instead of removing a few - vaguely noticeable (but slightly annoying) broken capillaries - I am left with, at best, red marks that will take months to fade or, at worst, pitted scars, that need raising and that may never heal.
Regarding the dermatologist's credentials. She is a member of the British Association of Dermatologists. I checked her medical training, she is a member of several well-respected dermatology charities and affiliations and has received several awards. I also found very good reviews of her practice online - that seemed reliable.
What I would like to underline is that, despite experience and good credentials of the practitioner the use of lasers is unreliable. I actually do not blame my dermatologist - apart from the fact that she should absolutely have been more clear about the risks before the procedure.
As testimonials on this site shows, even the most experienced practitioners have caused damage to skin - not because they are not skilled - but because the machines are unreliable, and each individual can have very different reactions.
We are being used as guinea pigs for an industry that is only interested in generating money. While the practitioners may be certified and come with good credentials the equipment that they use is not put under the same type of scrutiny.
I would advice anyone who considers undergoing any form of laser treatment - unless you are suffering very much from your condition - to reconsider and find alternative treatments. If it is just something minor, let it be.
Thank you for your comment. I am still letting the wounds heal, using Aquaphor ointment and putting on an antibiotic cream that was prescribed to me by my dermatologist. On the one side of my nose it looks as if it is healing rather well but the other still has a scab which is in an indentation with raised redness circling it.
On Wednesday (9th) I will see my dermatologist who will review and if the skin needs lifting she will do so - and she mentioned it might need to be done a few times to get the skin perfectly even. However, when I spoke to her again yesterday she said it is likely that when the scabs fall off the skin will just be pink and that will go away by itself - which, at the moment, seems unlikely.
This means that instead of removing a few - vaguely noticeable (but slightly annoying) broken capillaries - I am left with, at best, red marks that will take months to fade or, at worst, pitted scars, that need raising and that may never heal.
Regarding the dermatologist's credentials. She is a member of the British Association of Dermatologists. I checked her medical training, she is a member of several well-respected dermatology charities and affiliations and has received several awards. I also found very good reviews of her practice online - that seemed reliable.
What I would like to underline is that, despite experience and good credentials of the practitioner the use of lasers is unreliable. I actually do not blame my dermatologist - apart from the fact that she should absolutely have been more clear about the risks before the procedure.
As testimonials on this site shows, even the most experienced practitioners have caused damage to skin - not because they are not skilled - but because the machines are unreliable, and each individual can have very different reactions.
We are being used as guinea pigs for an industry that is only interested in generating money. While the practitioners may be certified and come with good credentials the equipment that they use is not put under the same type of scrutiny.
I would advice anyone who considers undergoing any form of laser treatment - unless you are suffering very much from your condition - to reconsider and find alternative treatments. If it is just something minor, let it be.
May 30, 2012
The exact same thing happened to me with a Coolglide laser and it has been three months and I am stuck with a small indented scar AND I still have the veins. How is the doctor going to lift the skin? With injections? Let me know how things go. There has got to be a better way!
May 30, 2012
Dear Denise,
I am sorry to hear that you've had the same experience. I still have the veins too... Is it on the side of your nose? I went to the dermatologist today and she used a needle and went under the skin, to "lift the scar". I will need to do this again once a month for four months. I believe the procedure is called subcision. The idea is that by breaking the tissue that holds the skin down and letting blood flow under the scar the scar will raise itself.
I am VERY sceptical that this will help, as the surface of the skin is - naturally - also affected by the laser burn. I am very disheartened by this entire process. The dermatologist response to my expression of concern was to try to wave it off by saying "oh this happens all the time and it will be perfectly fine". If this happens "all the time" why did she not warn me before?! If I would have known I would NEVER have done this, as I am now left with red indented scars that are much more visible than a few broken capillaries, which by the way, are still there.
I have been tempted to ask for my money back and go to someone else, but it turns out many dermatologists are very resistant towards dealing with another doctor's "mishap" (as the receptionist of the renewed Dr Nick Lowe told me)
The strange thing in all of this is that my dermatologist is very nice and helpful, but she refuses to admit that she has damaged my skin and keeps up an act of "this is all normal", when clearly it is not.
I was told to stay away from IPLs, and thought this was the "safe" option, that it would just be a minor procedure with no downtime or risk of scarring. I was very very wrong.
Denise, if you don't mind, let's stay in touch and we can let each other know if we have any good treatments trying to heal and repair the scars.
I am sorry to hear that you've had the same experience. I still have the veins too... Is it on the side of your nose? I went to the dermatologist today and she used a needle and went under the skin, to "lift the scar". I will need to do this again once a month for four months. I believe the procedure is called subcision. The idea is that by breaking the tissue that holds the skin down and letting blood flow under the scar the scar will raise itself.
I am VERY sceptical that this will help, as the surface of the skin is - naturally - also affected by the laser burn. I am very disheartened by this entire process. The dermatologist response to my expression of concern was to try to wave it off by saying "oh this happens all the time and it will be perfectly fine". If this happens "all the time" why did she not warn me before?! If I would have known I would NEVER have done this, as I am now left with red indented scars that are much more visible than a few broken capillaries, which by the way, are still there.
I have been tempted to ask for my money back and go to someone else, but it turns out many dermatologists are very resistant towards dealing with another doctor's "mishap" (as the receptionist of the renewed Dr Nick Lowe told me)
The strange thing in all of this is that my dermatologist is very nice and helpful, but she refuses to admit that she has damaged my skin and keeps up an act of "this is all normal", when clearly it is not.
I was told to stay away from IPLs, and thought this was the "safe" option, that it would just be a minor procedure with no downtime or risk of scarring. I was very very wrong.
Denise, if you don't mind, let's stay in touch and we can let each other know if we have any good treatments trying to heal and repair the scars.
May 30, 2012
Hi- yes, the veins are fine lines on the side of my nose as is now, the indented scar! It isn't a huge scar (maybe 3 mm) but of course I am mad also because I was not told of this potential risk and would have never done the treatment had I had known. Anyhow, I did go back to the original doctor who said that it will fill in which it hasn't yet. They did refund my money for some laser genesis treatments that I had purchased in advance. Then, I saw a plastic surgeon who suggested waiting one year before looking at doing anything because he said that the scar would change over the year. A second dermatologist told me that she could try laser resurfacing. She also gave me a strong peeling retin-A cream to try to get a peeling effect. So far, I am using the cream only (just started last week). I will let you know how things go. Feel free to private message me if you want. The second dermatologist also suggested pulsed dye laser for the veins but as you can understand, I am really reluctant to try any more lasers!!
November 5, 2013
Hi Sophie- how are things going with your scar? Did you manage to resolve it? I am still hesitant to try to remedy mine although I am doing 4 BBL treatments from a different salon to attack the overall redness (mild rosacea) on my face. Please update me with how you are doing. Thanks
November 5, 2013
Hi Denise,
Thank you for getting in touch. I hope you are doing well.
I did I few treatments with dermaroller, subsicion and fillers, with some minor improvement of the indents (not sure if the procedures actually did any difference, if the scars improved naturally or if I am just getting used to having them there...) I try to cover them up (the uneven colour), but other than this I have given up on finding a method to remove them.
One thing that this treatment has taught me, which I think is a good lesson to have, is to be very careful with any type of laser treatment, aesthetic/dermatological treatments all together. There are so many "promises" out there, but the risks are just far greater than the chances of seeing any real long term improvement.
I am now using a combination of tretinoin and obagi nu derm products to improve the general appearance of my skin, tretinoin is harsh on sensitive rosacea prone skin so I am being very careful. I am seeing some overall improvement in my tone and texture after two months of use. Nothing dramatic, but I realise it will take time and it takes patience.
I don't want to sound too pessimistic but if I were you I would stay away from BBL treatments, seek advice from a good dermatologist and try to resolve your issues with rosacea this way.
I wish you all the best. S
November 5, 2013
Hi- I have had 3 of the 4 BBL treatments already with some improvement in the redness overall. It is actually a friend (doctor) of my husband whose office is doing them and they are aware of my experience so they are VERY careful and conservative with me. Otherwise, though, for the scar, I think that I am getting used to it too. I would like to know how you cover it up- what do you use? Thanks
November 5, 2013
Hi Denise,
I am very happy to hear you've seen improvement in the redness with the BBL treatment! It's good that you are making sure the practitioner is being careful. In terms of covering up the scars, I tried Dermaflage, but found that it was just too much work to make it look natural. Now I use Shiseido's correction pencil to cover the uneven tone, it also fills out the indents ever so slightly when I put some powder on top of it using a q-tip. The indents are more or less visible depending on the light (of course), and some days I think they look better, others the same... I haven't seen any improvement from the tretinoin on these indents (I don't think tretinoin can do anything about pitted scars), but in general I think it has improved my skin texture and thus I feel a little less self-conscious about having some minor scarring. I am trying to find something positive in all this, and I guess that is that I have learnt the lesson not to have any laser procedures done in the future. If this wouldn't have happened perhaps I would have tried laser resurfacing on the entire face at some point, and could have been left with much more extensive scarring. I too have some problems with minor Rosacea and while tretinoin can be harsh, I do think it has helped with pustules and skin texture (my skin appears less thin now than it used to, and thus less red and rough - although during the first few weeks I did look worse, but this is to be expected before your skin gets used to the tretinoin). I read somewhere that Vitamin C intake can help balance Rosacea, but not sure how well researched this is, haven't tried it myself. Perhaps you have already tried it, but I have heard some people seeing some improvement with a combination of Rozex and Doxycycline. All the best, S
November 5, 2013
Hi Sophie- I am still really upset about this crazy indented scar and it has been 1.5 years!! Maybe one day I will have the courage to get something done about it. My thinking now is that they may just make it worse. Anyhow, I will keep in touch if I find any great breakthroughs. Thanks for replying.
November 5, 2013
Hi again Denise, I really understand how you feel; I was so upset the first few months, regretting I had it done, angry with the practitioner for her lack of competence and not admitting her fault, feeling self-conscious... I still get moments like these, but have started to get used to the indents being there and am trying to not think about it too much. Looking for treatments that might make it better almost made me feel even more anxious about it, for every success story there is always a horror one... The only treatments that I would consider trying, at a later point, is dermarolling and TCA cross, I am just too scared to let any laser near my face again. I find that fillers only lump up around the indent rather than actually raising it. It is really hard to find solutions for these kind of issues because you don't know which practitioners and procedures you can actually trust. I'll keep in touch too if I come across something. All the best
June 25, 2012
Hi Denise and Sophie8,
I, too, am a victim of a laser treatment gone awry.
I recently had an IPL treatment performed to reduce some facial redness caused by rosacea, as well as razor burn on my neck. While I had good results with reducing the redness in my cheeks and neck areas, my nose wasn't so lucky and I now have three sizable "dents" in the area where my nose meets my cheeks (one dent on the right and two on the left). Sound familiar?
I'm pretty convinced that the physician assistant performing the procedure turned up the power on the laser to get rid of some rather large capillaries on my nose and this in turn caused the dents. It was very painful and I could smell my own skin burning. I didn't say anything right then and there because I didn't really see the damage until about three weeks after the procedure due to the fact that the areas kept getting scabs/white heads on them.
So I went back to the clinic and this time saw the actual dermatologist. He said this was very rare and that it happened in maybe every "1 in 1,000" patients. I was a bit peeved by this because, of course, I wasn't made aware of this potential issue during the initial consultation. Nonetheless, I wanted to focus on how to fix the problem and his recommendation is to perform Fraxel treatment (free of charge, of course) on me. The goal with Fraxel is to get the collagen in the area stirred up so that it plumps the skin up and gets rid of the dents.
Obviously, I’m very apprehensive about doing anything involving a laser again and was wondering how your treatments (subcision and Retin-A) were coming along? I’m considering getting a second opinion but want to learn more so I know what to ask this time around. This whole process has been very distressing as I’m sure you both understand.
I, too, am a victim of a laser treatment gone awry.
I recently had an IPL treatment performed to reduce some facial redness caused by rosacea, as well as razor burn on my neck. While I had good results with reducing the redness in my cheeks and neck areas, my nose wasn't so lucky and I now have three sizable "dents" in the area where my nose meets my cheeks (one dent on the right and two on the left). Sound familiar?
I'm pretty convinced that the physician assistant performing the procedure turned up the power on the laser to get rid of some rather large capillaries on my nose and this in turn caused the dents. It was very painful and I could smell my own skin burning. I didn't say anything right then and there because I didn't really see the damage until about three weeks after the procedure due to the fact that the areas kept getting scabs/white heads on them.
So I went back to the clinic and this time saw the actual dermatologist. He said this was very rare and that it happened in maybe every "1 in 1,000" patients. I was a bit peeved by this because, of course, I wasn't made aware of this potential issue during the initial consultation. Nonetheless, I wanted to focus on how to fix the problem and his recommendation is to perform Fraxel treatment (free of charge, of course) on me. The goal with Fraxel is to get the collagen in the area stirred up so that it plumps the skin up and gets rid of the dents.
Obviously, I’m very apprehensive about doing anything involving a laser again and was wondering how your treatments (subcision and Retin-A) were coming along? I’m considering getting a second opinion but want to learn more so I know what to ask this time around. This whole process has been very distressing as I’m sure you both understand.
June 25, 2012
Dear Jay,
First of all, I am very sorry to hear about your experience. I feel for you, knowing how distressing this situation can be. I blame myself a lot, thinking that I should have checked the procedure more carefully instead of blindly trusting my dermatologist. You go in for improvement and then you get this...
It is, as you say, very upsetting that none of us were properly informed about the risks - when clearly there are risks (I think often heavily understated by the technicians who perform these procedures...) Had I known that I could potentially end up with red/purple dents I would never have done this for something, which in the light of all this, very minor.
I would strongly advice you AGAINST any Fraxel treatment. I have read so many negative reviews about this procedure (and other lasers working with a pixel technique) with serious side effects that are irreversible. Even if you would not get side effects I really doubt that it would help with the dents on the side of your nose. It is just not worth the risk in my opinion.
The dermatologist who performed the nd:yag on my nose is now treating the scarring, which she still refuses to refer to as "scarring" or "damage" but rather she tries to frame it so that this is actually some sort of after care, just dealing with a rather normal outcome... This is particularly upsetting since I feel she is treating me as if I am overreacting to something that is in fact "normal", when clearly scarring is not normal. She has not reimbursed me for the procedure, but is doing the scar revision treatments for free.
I have had one subcision treatment with a very small amount of filler, hyaluronic acid (Stylage). Directly after the procedure I could see improvement, the scar seemed a bit raised and more at level with the surrounding skin, but that went down after a couple of days. I think it was the swelling from the needle that caused this.
My dermatologist told me that I need 4 subcision and filler treatments and that it will be a gradual improvement. Subcision works in the way that the needle cuts off the scar "fibres" to release the scar and let blood flow in so as to stimulate new collagen production. This process can take a couple of months. She claims the skin will go back to normal, which I know is certainly not true (once you have scarring it will never go away entirely), but I am hoping for improvement.
Retin-A might help in terms of mildly peeling the top layer of the skin and stimulating collagen, but I don't think it can entirely reverse the damage.
I have also read about TCA cross, performed on pitted acne scars. After what happened I feel nervous about any type of advanced procedure - and will certainly never go near a laser again - and I will wait and see if the subcision helps, if it doesn't I might try TCA.
Regarding seeing another dermatologist for a second opinion, I would strongly advice you to do so. I have not been able to do so because the dermatologists I have contacted (all with very good reputation) do not wish to treat another doctor's mistake, also they would of course charge me a lot if they would do so. But if you can find someone I would advice that you do so.
Please feel free to email me if you would like to discuss this further. Again, I am very sorry that this has happened to you.
Kind regards,
S
First of all, I am very sorry to hear about your experience. I feel for you, knowing how distressing this situation can be. I blame myself a lot, thinking that I should have checked the procedure more carefully instead of blindly trusting my dermatologist. You go in for improvement and then you get this...
It is, as you say, very upsetting that none of us were properly informed about the risks - when clearly there are risks (I think often heavily understated by the technicians who perform these procedures...) Had I known that I could potentially end up with red/purple dents I would never have done this for something, which in the light of all this, very minor.
I would strongly advice you AGAINST any Fraxel treatment. I have read so many negative reviews about this procedure (and other lasers working with a pixel technique) with serious side effects that are irreversible. Even if you would not get side effects I really doubt that it would help with the dents on the side of your nose. It is just not worth the risk in my opinion.
The dermatologist who performed the nd:yag on my nose is now treating the scarring, which she still refuses to refer to as "scarring" or "damage" but rather she tries to frame it so that this is actually some sort of after care, just dealing with a rather normal outcome... This is particularly upsetting since I feel she is treating me as if I am overreacting to something that is in fact "normal", when clearly scarring is not normal. She has not reimbursed me for the procedure, but is doing the scar revision treatments for free.
I have had one subcision treatment with a very small amount of filler, hyaluronic acid (Stylage). Directly after the procedure I could see improvement, the scar seemed a bit raised and more at level with the surrounding skin, but that went down after a couple of days. I think it was the swelling from the needle that caused this.
My dermatologist told me that I need 4 subcision and filler treatments and that it will be a gradual improvement. Subcision works in the way that the needle cuts off the scar "fibres" to release the scar and let blood flow in so as to stimulate new collagen production. This process can take a couple of months. She claims the skin will go back to normal, which I know is certainly not true (once you have scarring it will never go away entirely), but I am hoping for improvement.
Retin-A might help in terms of mildly peeling the top layer of the skin and stimulating collagen, but I don't think it can entirely reverse the damage.
I have also read about TCA cross, performed on pitted acne scars. After what happened I feel nervous about any type of advanced procedure - and will certainly never go near a laser again - and I will wait and see if the subcision helps, if it doesn't I might try TCA.
Regarding seeing another dermatologist for a second opinion, I would strongly advice you to do so. I have not been able to do so because the dermatologists I have contacted (all with very good reputation) do not wish to treat another doctor's mistake, also they would of course charge me a lot if they would do so. But if you can find someone I would advice that you do so.
Please feel free to email me if you would like to discuss this further. Again, I am very sorry that this has happened to you.
Kind regards,
S
June 25, 2012
I am sorry that this happened to you too. 1 in 1000- I don't believe that at all! I am only using the Retin-A for now and will wait about one year to pursue anything else- enough time to allow the scar to heal (was advised by a plastic surgeon to wait this long). I have been proposed other laser-related treatments such as resurfacing but am hesitant at this point, to put it mildly. Right now my scar is not large (3 mm) and is skin coloured so while the indent makes it difficult to conceal, it is not that bad. I am afraid that if I try to make the appearance better, I may just end up making things worse. That is the risk. Good luck and let us know how things go for you. It is ridiculous that we are not warned of this beforehand, given the costs of these little procedures.
November 20, 2013
Hey! I had literally the same exact thing minus the fact that my doctor is an absolute prick and blamed the intents on ME! Oh it was MY fault because I was nervous?? WTF!!! But anyways I had three fraxel treatments done and I did see the scar improve, however, I see my nostril changing, like becoming smaller/different shaped. I haven't waited the full 6 months to see results so maybe I'm just jumping the gun but it REALLY bothers me. I actually think I might be getting a rhinoplasty this summer if things don't improve (which sucks because I really like my nose.) I'm only 19 and my doctor has messed up my face forever and won't admit it. He burned me in a place where I didn't even have veins actually. It sucks because it has completely ruined my life and I'm so young :( I actually was in route to going to medical school (future allopathic doctor) but I didn't sign up for classes next semester because I'm too depressed to focus on anything else. The scar is huge too...If anyone has any advice for me or on how to HIRE A LAWYER then please let me know!! My facebook is Kira Wiedemann and my email is wiedemannkira@yahoo.com. Thank you!
I am so sorry to hear what you are experiencing, and especially that you are still in that uncertain period where you're not quite sure how it will heal up. That can be a very tough time to be in.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience so others can be aware this is a risk.
Since you had mentioned the doctor you went to is supposed to be one of the best in London, do you mind me asking what credentials this person has, if you happen to know? I totally understand if you don't want to name the doctor, but it would be extremely helpful to others to know information such as if they are affiliated with a certain organization that led you to believe they were one of the best, or was it information on their website, etc.
Perhaps visiting another dermatologist for a second opinion might be a good idea?