Lip Lift in Houston :) - Sugar Land, TX

Hi Barnaby, Sorry I'm camera shy so there are no photos. As I said the v-y procedure that my surgeon did without my consent has left me with a lot of scarring under my lips (not visable, but uncomfortable), and there is no surgery that can undo the v-y. All in all, I'm happy, but I no longer have a cupid's bow because of the v-y (you can Google the v-y). There is a PS in Indiana that has agreed (thru RealSelf) to cut away some tissue and give me a cupid's bow...I need to seriously think about this as I'm really apprehensive about doing more. Valborg

Thank you! Totally agree! I should also state that in my Before pic, I was wearing lipliner (lining slightly outside of my natural lip line) so my lips look slightly larger than they are (that's been my trick for years). My after pic has absolutely no makeup, if that helps to explain why it may appear that the difference is very subtle. When I wear lipliner now, using my trick of tracing slightly outside of the upper lip line, my lips are "Whoa!" big! :) I'm not sure if he does corner lifts, but give him a call! Talk to Jana at the front desk - she's great! 281- 565-8099 :)

Thanks very much for the number -- I'll call today! Just one more question -- do you know what the length of your upper lip space was before vs. after? My space is 2 cm -- much too long and getting longer as I get older. I can't wait to get rid of a good 4-5 mm. I have about a millimeter of tooth show now and would love more, but my main concern is just how disproportionate the space looks with my face. I'm starting to look exactly like my father -- yuck! Thanks again for your comments and photos!

No...I don't know what the original upper lip space was...I still can't see my teeth unless I smile, but I'm done doing anything more!!! Valborg

Sorry, Valborg - I meant my response for Barnaby! Sorry if I did something confusing.

I'm not sure what my space was before.. maybe 7-8mm? He removed about 1-2mm which was super-conservative... I wish he'd removed more, but at least I can go back and get some more taken out. I think he'll definitely help you! You can also send him pics via email and he's very responsive. If you can, try the Q-tip idea: take a photo of how you look normally, then take the Q-tip and roll up a little of your lip and try to get a photo of that as well, so that he knows what you're looking for. We did the Q-tip on me (see photo) but I think he was really nervous to excise that much because he was nervous I'd regret it. I just talked to him and told him I still wanted that look and he said "Ok, come on back in 2-3 weeks and we'll take care of it." :)

Thanks for your response, Barnaby. I'm so impressed by your scar. A lot of doctors don't seem to follow the lower contours of the nose, and cut straight across under the columnella. It looks so obvious to me. Dr. Horndeski has the technique down, though. I also like that your upper lip has stayed the same size for the most part as mine is not terribly thin, though not as full as yours. I hope you'll update after your revision. Re. the Q-tip thing, I do it ten times a day in the mirror, believe me! I hate the space between my nose and lip with a vengeance!

Thank you! He also specializes in hand microsurgery, so maybe that's why he was so skilled working in such a small area with minimal scarring. Give him a call or send him an email - he'll be able to tell you if you're a candidate and how much he would charge :)

Your doctor is right. I know of someone who had a liplift and the doctor removed too much and now she can't close her lips, so she is looking into getting a skin graft, plus she has that dreaded rabbit look. Better to have the option to remove more at a later date rather than looking for a revision.

Sorry about the triple post. I was editing my response and did not realize that the previous response posted.

thank you!

Thank you so much! I didn't know he did either until I started searching for lip lift reviews and Doctor Q&A, and noticed he replied several times to other reviewers asking if they were a candidate. I don't think he advertises it because he honestly didn't know it had such a cult following. He laughed when I told him about how much surgeons charge. He kept saying "This is easy! I've been doing it for years! It takes 10 minutes. It's not that hard - how can they charge $4-8K??" I'm sorry for your other health issues but I hope they resolve soon. Definitely give him a call or just send him an email (plasticpromd@yahoo.com) with pics and he can let you know if you're a candidate and how much he would charge. Good luck :)

It appears that some Doctors have much better skills/techniques than others or are listening to the response of people who have had or want a LL. Minimal scarring is of upmost importance. Also, not everyone wants the muscle manipulated as you mentioned. I read an article on Dr. Eppleys site, stating that there is no evidence at this point that one technique offers longer lasting results over the other. Thanks for you response, wishing you many Blessings.

No nasal sill/nostril distortion and yes, the recovery was amazing! I'd read horror stories and was prepared for the worst, it was fine. He didn't touch the muscle, just removed a small strip of skin. Dr. Haworth in Bev. Hills does the muscle hemming technique which just seems fraught with problems. Dr. Svehlak (in LA) sutures the skin to the underlying muscle which can also yield really negative results over time. (I consulted with both of them, and didn't particularly care for their demeanor or approach). Dr. Rodriguez in Baltimore, Dr. Epstein in Miami, and Dr. Horndeski in Houston don't touch the muscle. Hope that helps! :)

Thanks so much for all of your info -- it's been so helpful to those of us interested in this procedure. And by the way you look gorgeous in your latest photos! Absolutely amazing!

I'm so glad to be reading this. I am scheduled for LL surgery with Dr. Svehlak later thus summer, after consulting with him by phone (sent him photos). He was really nice and spent quality time with me, but the cost is about $5,000, plus what I will have to spend on airfare and hotel as he asks his LL patients to stay in town for five days - he removes stitches on day 5. I did a Skype consult with Dr. Rodriguez and he was great on the phone too. Dr. R was half the cost of Dr. S. and said he has done over a hundred LL's. the only thing that gave me pause with Dr. R. was that he does dissolvable stitches and I read a review where that can be bad because the scar doesn't heal as nicely. What stitch technique did Dr. Horndeski use on your procedure? Thank you!

Dr. Horndeski uses regular sutures but you can't see them, which is amazing! Literally you can see the ends of the sutures on the left and right side of the nostrils, but none in the middle (I've also seen pictures of where you can see each individual suture underneath the nose) but this wasn't the case. Here's the other great thing about Dr. H: if you can't stay for the entire 5 days, he said you can pull the sutures out yourself when you get home if you can't stay 5 days. I know, it sounds really freaky and really gross, but he showed me how to do it, when he removed mine. I had to cut my trip short by a day and I notified his nurse over the weekend that I'd need to fly back a day sooner. I asked if he could just remove them on Day 4 or would I need to wait and do it by myself and she asked me to send her a pic via text message of how it looked. She said it should be fine for him to remove it on Day 4 (which was Monday, since I had my surgery the previous Friday). I went in to see him, he literally grabbed one end of the suture and pulled. It was a really weird tugging sensation, but 5 seconds later, it was done. So, I would say that if you can stay 4-5 days (i.e., fly in on Friday, get it done Friday afternoon, fly out Monday or Tuesday), then great. But if not, you can always just fly in for the procedure, stay for a day or so, fly back out and pull the suture out yourself when you get home. Also Dr. H does Skype, so if you wanted, you could have him with you on Skype when you removed the sutures (for moral support as well as guidance) ;)

Thank you so much for all the insights! I am going to call to check his schedule. Where did you stay (which hotel), and could you eat regular food afterwards or did you have to drink liquids?

I stayed at the Hampton Inn in Stafford, TX which was about 5 minutes from his office (located at: 4714 Techniplex Dr., Stafford, Texas, 77477. Phone #: 281-565-0559). Right afterwards, when I arrived back at the hotel, I ate a small bag of pretzels, then broke off pieces of a protein bar and snacked on that a bit later. I think you want to avoid anything you have to drink through a straw, or use a spoon to eat with (these force you to purse your lips around the instrument, which hurts). I think if you're going for the 'best' choices, I would choose something soft like mashed potatoes (eaten with a fork using your teeth to pull them off the fork, not your lips), or jello, or drink a Muscle Milk which is a meal in itself and has lots of protein to help you heal. If you have any other favorite foods that you're considering snacking on, let me know and I'll tell you if I think it'll be difficult or not, but honestly you should be fine by 4-5hrs afterwards. You'll be uncomfortable as far as eating, but just feel your way through it. Hope that helps :)

You are so great to take the time to share info, very helpful! How long before you could eat corn-on-the-cob?! (My summer face, and surely a LL's worst nightmare LOL)

I meant summer fave not face - darn auto-correct!

I would guess probably 7 days ;)

I've just started my research maybe you can help me out, I don't want another disaster like my BA surgery. My top concern (other than the results I want) are scarring! I'm not certain, I only have 2 scars but I may keloid. Reading about Dr Haworth he makes it sounds as though his muscle hemming procedure helps produce less of a scar. Please Barnaby and Sarah36 fill me in!

Barnaby, just wanted to say you look fantastic! I'm considering a consult with Dr. Horndeski. I just consulted with Dr. Epstein, though, and I thought he said he does touch the muscle? (not to the same degree Haworth does, though). I'll have to go back and clarify with him. Congratulations again on your wonderful result, and thanks for sharing!

Hi Barnaby, I did a phone consult with Dr. Horndeski and reserved 8/29 for my LL! That means I will be releasing my LL with Dr. Svehlak in favor of Horndeski. I agonized over this decision as I am terrified of making a mistake...but your scar seems so unnoticeable and that is what worries me most. That and too much skin being taken out. Like you, I would rather have the surgeon be conservative and go back a second time if necessary, even though it would mean another trip to Houston from Scottsdale. The other deciding factor was $$...not that I would skimp since its my face, BUT there is a $3,000 difference in price. More, when you factor in the additional cost for 5 night stay in Beverly Hills. Dr. H. said I can even fly home the same day. Right now I have it booked so that I fly into Houston Hobby in the morning, get a rental car, drive to Dr. H's, have the procedure at 1:30 p.m., then fly home in the early evening. Do you think this is possible? Or do you think no way will I be up for the flight home? How freaky will I look on the plane?! If need be, I can stay overnight but I'd just as soon get home so I don't have to arrange for a pet sitter for my three chihuahuas. Crazy as that may sound. The other thing that still perplexes me is that Dr. S. told me it would be a 90 minute procedure, Dr. R. In Baltimore said it would be a 1 hour procedure, yet Dr. H. says it will be 15 minutes! Why the huge discrepancy do you think? Thanks again for your guidance - I hope I am making the right call. I'm going to wait 48 hours before canceling Dr. S., just to "sit with" my decision...

Hi, I was thinking about your question. From what I've read here it sounds like Dr S does operate on the muscle, so that would take more time. The other reasons for both Dr S and Dr R may be the type of anesthesia that they use. Obviously, local would cut down on the time. Anything else would require prep and recovery time. Do you know what type of anesthesia Dr S and Dr R use?

Hi Barnaby, I had a consult with Dr. Horndeski today and thought he was great. (He actually mentioned "a patient on realself.com who was giving him raves!"). I'm trying to decide between him, Dr. Hilinski in San Diego, and Dr. Epstein in Miami. Did you see any more photos of Horndeski's before and afters? Thanks again for your input here, and you really do look fabulous!

All of them said it would be in-office, using only local anesthesia. The only thing I can think is that Dr. S. and Dr. R are including the time to consult and then mark the area. My hunch is Dr. H. meant actual cutting and sewing time? I think the reason Barnaby healed so fast is that Dr. H. doesn't touch the muscle. I believe all three of them are pros who know what they are doing. Dr. R. has actually performed more LL's than anyone. And he quoted me $2,500 which is also a good deal less than the Beverly Hills docs S. and Haworth. I also talked to Dr. Laverson and Dr. Helinski in San Diego, and Dr. Menick in Tucson. Laverson's LL work on his website looks really good. Helinski's work looks good too, but I thought maybe his stitches weren't quite as close to the nostrils as the others? Check it out and see what you think.

When I consulted with Dr. Epstein, he said that he never needed to modify or touch the muscle underneath, but definitely clarify it with him. Hope that helps :)

Scarring is independent for everyone. I will say that my scar is hardly noticeable (I had the lip lift done and 5 days later I flew home. My boyfriend had no idea, he just thought it was irritation from my allergies and blowing my nose). He still doesn't know and because the lift was so subtle, it's not a dead giveaway. Also, Dr. Hordeski is also a hand microsurgeon, so he's familiar with working in delicate small areas. I'm definitely going back for more of a lift though!

Hi there! Congrats on booking it :) I understand that you're nervous, trust me, I was too. Honestly, it's fine. My scar is totally hidden under my nose (I'll post a pic shortly so that you can see it 1 month post op). He's definitely conservative, so I don't think you need to worry about leaving there looking like a bunny rabbit. ;) I definitely think you'll be fine to fly out that evening. You may have some gauze under your nose because it will bleed a tiny bit; if you're OK with people seeing the gauze, then you'll be fine to fly. Your upper lip will look a little swollen and 'monkey-ish' for a few days, then the swelling goes down. The time differential between the 3 surgeons is crazy. When I went in, Dr. Horndeski basically said "this is a simple procedure, very straight forward. It will take me 10 -15 mins." Maybe the other docs are considering the time to sign the paperwork, do the numbing injection, wait for that to kick in, then perform the procedure. I think in total I was there about an hour for all of that. I took a xanax prior to going in because I was so nervous (they were fine with it). I will warn you: the numbing injection is horrendously painful, so be prepared for that (as well as you can mentally prepare yourself). It's 5 mins of pain, then you're OK. Hope that helps and good luck!! :)

Everyone here is being very smart. I wish that I had as much information that is out there now regarding skin vs muscle liplift. Remember no matter how the lips look in a picture, we all have to realize that eating, speaking and kissing are things that we take for granted. Even using a straw, blowing up a ballon squishing water in our mouths when we gargle or brush our teeth, all things that we take for granted. Anyway, I found this interesting article. http://www.cosmeticsurg.net/blog/2013/01/22/lip-lift-technique-lifting-skin-only-vs-muscle/

Hi, When you had your phone consult with Dr Horndeski, did you e-mail him pictures? I am thinking of having a consult with him regarding a liplift revision.

Hi, I did send him several photos from a few different angles and he looked at those and told me I'm a good candidate. I meet all the criteria for what constitutes the "ideal" patient for LL: Over 50 years go age (I am 51), fair skin, nose that's a bit wider than mouth but not considerably so, and of course, a looong distance between the top of my lip and the bottom of my nostrils with ZERO tooth show. I am so sorry for the problems you've had. That is exactly what is scary about this procedure and why I want a skin-only LL, even though I think all of the "after" photos on Dr. Haworth's site are the prettiest of all. Just too scared to mess with the muscle. Thanks for the link you posted - I will read it tonight. You've never said who your doc was? Does he know about the effects this has had on your ability to speak, eat, chew, etc.? And (shallow question), did your result look pretty despite the awful consequences? Or did you also not like how it turned out aesthetically?

Oh great, then I am going to stick with Plan A to fly back that night. I don't mind if I get strange looks at the airport :). I'm sure people will have seen stranger... Thanks for the reality check about the shots, too. Last year I had to have a couple of toenails removed and they shot the anesthetic right into my toes. It was excruciating for a few moments and then went numb and I never felt any pain during excision. So I bet it will be similar to that. Man, the price we pay for beauty, eh? Your lips are SO gorgeous but they were also gorgeous before you did the procedure! And that's great your boyfriend never even knew. I don't want anyone at work to know. Hoping I can get away with claiming its allergies...

Sarah36, Sorry to hear that your LL was not successful. Hopefully a revision will offer you some satisfaction, should you decide to go that route. The link that you listed above hopefully will benefit those who are still trying to decide about whether or not to have a muscle hemming LL as oppose to a skin only LL. As someone stated, Dr. Haworth has some beautiful b/a photos on his site. No doubt, there are some who have had the muscle hemming surgery and love their results. Still, not everyone wants to take the risk. It is only because I have health issues that I have not gone forward with a LL. Having a site like this, with people like yourself and others willing to share your journey (whether positive or negative) is invaluable. I am soo much more informed now than I would have been a few years ago when I first started looking into a LL as an option. Many thanks and many Blessings to you. Ville

Excellent article, thank you!

Here is another article worth reading on the LL and skin versus skin and muscle: "I receive e-mails from dissatisfied plastic surgery patients on a monthly basis looking for help. Over the last few years, one of the highest rates of dissatisfaction has come from patients who have had an upper lip lift. I have been sent e-mails from desperate patients looking for help. One of the common themes among most, not all, but most of these e-mails are that these patients did not have a simple skin only lip lift, they had the type of liplift that also involved surgery on the orbicularis oris muscle. The most common lip-lift procedure today is called a bullhorn liplift. This procedure consists of an excision of the white part of the upper lip directly beneath the nose in the shape of a 'bull's-horn', with advancement of the inferior border of the incision to the area directly beneath the nose. The incisions are hidden along the base of the nose. This procedure shortens the distance between the top lip and the tip of the nose allowing for more upper tooth show when the lips are slightly parted. It also everts more of the upper lip vermilion, therefore creating more "poof" in the upper lip. Some plastic surgeons are also operating on the orbicularis oris muscle besides the skin while doing the upper lip lift, sometimes known as a muscle liplift. Then they are suturing the orbicularis oris muscle to the periosteum or other tissues underneath the nose. Many, many more complications have been seen using this technique so it is not widely accepted or recommended. Severe stiffness and numbness can be experienced lasting for many months and in some cases can be permanent. By suturing the muscle to the periosteum or any other tissue, you are interfering with the natural sphincter movement of the upper lip which can lead to abnormal movements of the lip and nose. A sequelae of this can be bizarre looking movements of the upper lip during animation and possible speech disturbance. Also, the natural pretty flow of the philtrum columns can be changed when the position of the muscle has been altered, creating a "chopped off" look. It has been reported that muscle and nerve damage can occur from this suturing technique. Most plastic surgeons will only do a skin only liplift whose effectiveness has been well documented in peer-reviewed journals. Bullhorn lip-lifts can change the shape of your nose so this risk needs to be discussed with your surgeon. Also, some surgeons are now hiding their incisions within the nostril opening. While this technique may camouflage the scar, it can lead to negative cosmetic consequences with patients who have prominent nasal sills. The removal of the sills at the base of the nose can lead to enlarged nostril openings and a distorted nasal base. With the bullhorn lip-lift you also have a risk of scarring under the nose. With most people this scar fades but if you do not scar well or have a history of developing keloids then any of the lip-lift procedures are not for you. Corner liplifts can be another area of possible dissatisfaction. I've had individuals write to me and inform me that after their corner liplift they have to constantly stretch their mouth. They describe a mouth that constantly feels tight and this is two years post surgery. This is probably secondary to scar tissue formation with subsequent contracture. Unacceptable external scarring can occur too. When patients are considering undergoing a procedure that involves a "new" technique or type of technology, they should further inquire if results supporting the safety and effectiveness of the procedure have been documented in a peer-reviewed journal or other reputable publication. If the surgeon just came out with a new procedure, give it at least two years before you submit. You do not want to be a guinea pig! It takes years to know what the final outcome will be from a new procedure or what complications may come up. If the plastic surgeon doing the procedure is the only one doing it, then there must be a reason for that. OR IF THEY CLAIM THEY INVENTED IT AND NO ONE ELSE DOES IT BUT THEM, BE VERY WARY. Talk to other well respected doctors about the procedure and see what they think of it. These are your lips; you speak, eat, drink kiss and do many other things with them on a daily basis. The last thing you want is a complication that can never be reversed or revised if needed. Even the slightest bit of numbness to your lips can be devastating for the rest of your life. Imagine not being able to sense a runny nose or sense if any food is stuck to your lip. There's no 'a little bit of numbness' when it comes to your lips. Demand to see past surgical patients in person. Watch them when they animate. Do not just go by before and after still pictures. They will never tell the whole story!"