21, 5'4" and 120 Lbs... Athletic/curvy build & in Need of Some Enhancement Up Top to Match the Curves!

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Hey all! I'm 21 (almost 22), 5'4.5", and between...

Hey all!

I'm 21 (almost 22), 5'4.5", and between 120-124 lbs and have been considering a BA on & off for about 4-5 years.
When I was in HS I actually had huge boobs... 32DDD-34DD was my avg size. These babies were a leeeetle too big for me, but they matched my athletic but curvy body type pretty decently well (esp considering I have a big butt... hehe). However, I was a little embarrassed by their size and wore a lot of non-cleavage bearing clothing, and/or covered them well with scarves or sweatshirts!
Unfortunately I suffered from a pretty severe eating disorder for a while. I ended up shrinking down to a very unhealthy weight, losing all of my boobs in the process. While I am very happy and proud to say I recovered back to a healthy weight which I have maintained for over 4 years... none of the boobies I lost ever really came back :( To add to it, I lift weights quite often now and while I LOVE my body, working out has made my boobs more muscle than fat, which has actually made them appear flatter :/
SO... I figured, to reward myself for my hard work and accomplishments with diet/exercise/healthy lifestyle, I would save up and get myself a new pair of girls! My old boobies were much too big for me, but I had shrunk from a DD-DDD down to a small-med B, so I was hoping to bring them back up to around a full C. I wanted them to look very natural but full and more proportionate to my curves. I am extremely lucky that with how much I shrank, my boobs did not have any sag to them! A few small, barely noticeable stretch marks, but luckily not much more than that. Doc did say that they were nice and stretchy, which is definitely a plus as I felt this might help them adapt well to a larger size. I had my surgery earlier today, and I am feeling so great about it that I figured I would write a bit about it, since I am immobilized for a bit, but feeling surprisingly alert and great! (I do apologize if some of this is a bit goofy, as I am on pain meds and am feeling a bit goofy, lol. I will revise in the morning and change a few things around if need be :)
As I had really wanted a natural look and feel, after some deliberation and a lot of thought, my doc and I decided to go with 310cc, smooth round mod profile implants, under the muscle. However, my right breast is slightly larger than my left, and also has a slightly larger areola as well. Considering this, we decided to stick with 310cc in the left, but ordered additional implants (275, 295, and 310) for the right breast, so that the doc could have the chance to use sizers during surgery, and determine which implant would yield the best result and look the most even. When I awoke from surgery, I was told that we ended up using 310 in the left, and 295 in the right. I am very grateful that my surgeon took the time and effort to plan out having different sizes available so that we could achieve the best result, and happy that I trusted him to make the final decision! In addition, my breasts did need a slight amount of scoring done on the inside so that they would be properly filled out by the implant, and not remain riding too high. This also means that, while my surgery was essentially "under the muscle", it was actually done using a dual-plane technique, where the top part of the implant is covered by the muscle, but the bottom of it is actually partially subglandular. This technique would yield the best results for my particular situation, while still feeling natural! In addition, we decided to go with the periareolar incision to be able to score the breast a bit better/easier. Originally, I had wanted to try to go through the armpit, because I did not want any scars on my breast... I was really nervous about that! However, my doctor said that, while possible, it was very difficult to do this incision for my type of situation, and there was a chance it would not yield the results we were looking for (and the breasts might be farther apart than we were wanting, which was not my ideal). I was pretty against the crease incision because, although in general I've noticed they heal quite well, I really didn't want any scars on the skin. Moreover, since my PS wanted to score the breasts to help with implant placement, he said that the crease incision would not be ideal anyway. That left the PA incision. I was still a little nervous about this incision, because of it being directly front and center pretty much, but from reading about/seeing how others' have healed, you pretty much can't even see them! They are in an area where the skin naturally changes colors, so they blend right in. Looking at all of my PS' past surgeries with this incision, I couldn't even tell! This made me feel more confident and at ease about this type of incision, and I figured this was the best option, both for surgical and aesthetic reasons, and my PS agreed.
Upon waking, I was actually incredibly surprised at how good I felt. I did have a lot of tightness in my chest, which was uncomfortable, but not exactly "painful" per se. However, the most surprising part for me was how coherent I felt. I was definitely loopy from the anesthesia, but I felt very alert, and the best part - NO NAUSEA! Apart from the slight queasiness of being doped up on meds and not having anything in my stomach, I felt great! I have had surgery before (broken arm) and woken up bawling my eyes out because of the nausea, so I was extremely nervous about this. However, I felt great, and I think this is largely due to the Emend pill I was prescribed to take prior to the surgery, as well as having an excellent anesthesiologist - side note about him, he definitely quelled a lot of my anxiety by assuring me that he would do his best to take care of me and make me feel great, but that they had plenty of medications readily available upon my waking should I be extremely uncomfortable in any way.
I felt great enough to be up and walking around, doing basic things most of the rest of the day today. However, I did have the doctor's advisory that I would likely feel better than expected today (true) but that I should still take it very easy, which I have made sure to. The only activities I have done so far are walking to/from the car (which my lovely friend has been operating, not myself, of course), walking in and out of jamba juice, and walking around the house a bit. When I feel the pain meds wearing off, it is definitely a very uncomfortable feeling. My chest begins to feel very tight, like I am wearing a bra stuffed with socks that is strapped very tight... except underneath my skin (which, I suppose, is sort of similar to what is really going on lol). However, as long as I am staying up on my painkillers and muscle relaxers, I feel pretty good as long as I am not trying to move my chest/shoulder muscles a ton or flex them in any way! As I noted before, the "pain" is definitely more of a discomfort because of the tightness in the muscles... it's not a shooting pain or anything. However, I have yet to determine whether my incisions will be "painful", as my PS uses a local anesthetic on the chest wall to help with post-op pain, and this has not yet worn off completely. So, I will definitely make sure to post some more updates, as well as some photos (I haven't taken any post-op photos and, because of the dressings, you can't see much anyway) as this post is only about 8 hours post-op!
So far, however, I am extremely happy with them! Yes, they are still hard/swollen and riding a bit high, however, I am pleased with how "natural" they look already. They feel a little foreign, as to be expected, but even from just looking at them in only the bra, I am surprised at how normal they look. No "high-and-ball" looking breast, which is awesome. I am super, super happy and can't wait until they soften up a bit and I start feeling like they are truly a part of me!
I will post a bit more info about my procedure and post-op period soon, but I just wanted to post this update for now and just say how happy I am with Dr. C, his staff, and his work! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

Pre/Post-op photos!

I know these are not the best quality photos, but here are some to just give you a good idea of what I started out with and ended up with! I am 5 days post-op currently, and LOVE my new girls!

Another Post-Op Photo!

Here is another post-op photo... similar to the last but I think it is a bit of a better angle. I love how natural they are looking and really hope they don't change much!
My breasts had a bit of constriction in the lower region, so my PS did some scoring in that area so they would drop into the correct position and we wouldn't have to risk them getting "stuck" riding up too high after the operation. As a result, they aren't "high-riding" like most implants are directly after post-op, which is super lucky for me! My PS has me wearing an underwire bra to keep them in this position so they don't end up dropping lower than we are wanting. I am hoping they stay at this current shape/size/position because I love the way they look right now so much! They are even better than what I was hoping for/expecting!
For those of you who have had this procedure, does anyone have any tips/tricks for keeping them looking as close to how they are now as possible? It seems to me that most of the swelling has actually gone down, which is awesome considering they are only 4 days new... but I'm hoping that they won't lose too much more volume if any. I'm loving their current size! So if anyone has any tips/tricks to keep them from losing much more volume from their post-op state, please let me know!

5 days post op & feeling so great!

I've been feeling better & better by the day and still loving my new girls of course! I'm really struggling with trying to keep myself from doing too much. I honestly feel good enough to go back to the gym.... and it's right across the street.... calling my name..... but UGH OK FINE I WON'T >:( I know I don't want to risk anything by doing too much too soon, but I'm really surprised at how back to normal I feel. The first day and a half or two were suuuuper rough, but since then it's been pretty smooth sailing and I'm still super happy with my results! Posting my first pic in a bra today :)

Feeling great!

It is now 6 days post-op and I'm feeling great still. Pretty sure no one is really reading these but it's fun to update/document for myself I guess and if someone does stumble upon my posts and decide to read, hopefully they help someone. Not much in the way of change - swelling has gone down a little more but that's about it.
My PS has me wearing an underwire 24/7 because I had some constriction due to "tuberous breasts" (although my pre-op breasts do not look as unfortunate as most tuberous breasts, they just look perky to me so I guess I was lucky!) and since he released the bottom part so the implants would drop correctly, they're positioned pretty much where we want them to stay, meaning an underwire is necessary to keep them from dropping too much lower.
This is a good & bad thing - I'd love to go bra less, especially during sleep, so that's a bit of a bummer... but it's nice to have post-op breasts that already look close to the final result and that aren't high-riding and awkward looking, so I'm pretty thankful for that!
I'm thinking (and hoping) that most of the swelling is gone and that they're about the size of what they will end up looking like for good. Of course I know that, because they are mod profile, once they soften up a little I'll probably lose some upper pole fullness and whatnot, but since they've already been "dropped" for the most part, I think/hope the "dropping and fluffing" period most girls go through with implants won't change mine too much. BUT I know I'm only 6 days post and I'm trying not to get too used to them since I know they will likely change at least a little.
They started out @ about a fullllll 34D or moderate 34DD no padding. I'm thinking ill probably end up with a very full C or small to med D cup once all is said and done and they've adjusted to their final size, which is what I was hoping/asking for. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't experiencing some of the "boobie greed" many girls talk about, and having those thoughts of wishing I'd gone bigger.... But I know I would have regretted it if I did go bigger. I think this size looks very natural on me and proportional, which is exactly what I wanted. When all is said and done I really would like no one to be able to tell I've had them done and since my boobs have fluctuated a LOT in size over the years and I also hardly ever wear clothing that shows or emphasizes them, I really think that will be the case. I have to keep reminding myself of that! ;)
Regardless of the normal "boobie greed" I am experiencing small amounts of, I still am extremely pleased with the results and think my PS is super talented. When he showed my my 3D vectra imaging of what I'd look like with my implants, he said that while it wouldn't be an exact match, most patients do end up thinking it is pretty accurate. I don't think mine look like the imaging... I think they really actually look way way better! ;)

A note on recovery

From reading about what to expect from recovery, I was extremely nervous about what I was going to be going through. As an avid exerciser (I'm talking 6+ days every week in the gym, heavy exercise) I was nervous about taking time off from exercise and aside from that, scared of the pain. Some girls say they had a lot lot more pain than they were expecting, some a lot less.
I think that recovery depends on a lot. My recovery has seemed extremely, extremely easy. For me, upon waking up I was super coherent and felt fine walking around for the first hour or two (we had the drive home, but I was fine getting dressed after waking up, walking into the store to go to the bathroom and grab a smoothie on the way home, etc) and apart from the initial very tight feeling in my chest (and a slight pain, but more like an uncomfortable feeling like I stuffed my bra with 3 pairs of socks but couldn't take them out) and drowsiness, I felt fine. After getting home and settled, though, the first evening/night was HELL. I constantly counted down the minutes to take my next dose of pain pills, and took the highest allowed amount of painkillers and muscle relaxers as soon as I was allowed them. The next day was a little better - still doing the counting down the minutes thing, but I was so out of it that I just slept most of the day or watched movies. I was uncomfortable but less so. After that, though, I've pretty much felt back to normal. I slowly cut back more and more on my medications and honestly, since probably day 4 I've had to constantly remind myself to take it easy. Other than feeling like my chest is a little tight (now, though, it's more like a feeling of having worn a bra for too long... which I kind of have been lol) I feel 100% normal.
I think my quick recovery probably has a lot to do with me being really active normally, and having my muscles repeatedly torn/healed from lifting and yadda yadda, but it could just be me personally recovering from things quickly. Everyone has their own experiences. If you find yourself worrying that it's taking you longer than normal to recover... realize that there ISN'T really a normal amount of time. I was off narcotic pain meds (other than taking a few at night to help with discomfort and help me get a little drowsier) and driving myself around by Wednesday, when my surgery was Monday afternoon. That's probably not "normal" for most people having a pretty invasive surgery like a BA. So do what feels right for you, but also make sure to listen to YOUR personal doctor. I honestly feel like I could go to the gym (for lower body, of course), but have restrained myself to doing some very low impact at-home exercises and stretching at home instead because I want to listen to my doctor. Bottom line... Be smart, don't worry too much, and have a happy recovery and good communication with your PS :)

Sports bras never looked so good! ;)

Had to get an underwire sports bra cause my bra was killing me... PS still has me wearing underwire 24/7 and I was constantly waking up cause of the discomfort of the one I had. I didn't wanna go bra-crazy and buy too much new stuff yet since I know it can take a few months to reach your final size, but I don't think mine are going to change too much and I HAD to get something better than that one while they're still healing lol. I figured a Medium would be a good size, cause any bigger and the band would be too big and that's the part that's important now, but it looks like maybe I should've gone for the large lol. This thing isn't a push-up but it sure as hell looks like one! It feels really nice to have them compressed though actually. It's a little snug but they feel a lot less achy this way actually so I guess I'm glad.
It's funny to me that these things are actually D-DD size, they don't look that big to me when they are bare! In any bra though they tend to look bigger for some reason and I haven't even tried on a push-up lol. But maybe it's that I'm just more used to them now. If I were just looking at them I'd probably guess full C-ish, maaaaaaybe small D but that's pushing it I think, but that's just me. But I guess they are bigger than that! Lol. Also, as we all know, different bra manufacturers have different sizes. Haven't gone to VS yet but wouldn't be surprised if I measure even "bigger" there since they like to embellish lol. So maybe I really am more like a full C/small D, who knows, more importantly who cares! I think they look perfect and proportionate so that's what matters!
Also... I took a peek at my incisions yesterday... They seem to be healing well for about a week out! Mine are PA and I think they're the thing I'm most nervous about at this point cause I want them to heal well since they're kinda front and center on the whole boob obviously lol. But from what I've heard and seen, these usually tend to heal well and a lot of surgeons say that sometimes they can't even find their old incision marks on their patients once they heal! I'm really really hoping this happens to me too lol, or at least they blend nice enough to not be able to see them unless you're really looking ;)

A good BA can and should wiggle & jiggle like normal! ;)

Wishing I didn't have so many visible tattoos... :/ I want to post a vid of them cause I think it would be helpful for anyone that wants to see how natural a good BA can and should "look" from different angles* (let's just say they squish and jiggle normally and I'm only a little more than a week after post-op!) but I don't want to be recognizable to anyone by my tats. Not that I really think anyone I know would use this site or stumble upon my profile, but you never know... and still. Idk it may be silly but I'm paranoid :p
But anyway, mine are very soft and squishy! They wiggle and jiggle pretty darn normally! I'd say they look "fakest" at this point when lying on my back, but even then they still don't look obviously fake and fall to the side like regular breasts should.
As for how they feel... it's hard to say. Muuuuch more "real" feeling than I was expecting at this point (they are pretty soft!) but because I *know* they are augmented, I think in my head I'll probably never know if they feel 100% "real" or not, lol. As of right now, though, in my opinion, they feel pretty darn "natural" ish from the top and sides. I can definitely feel the implant at the bottom still and its firmer than the rest of my boobies (which is sort of to be expected as they are dual-plane) but even then it's softer than I expected! I can't wait to feel them in a few weeks and even a few months... I have a feeling that I will only love them more and more as time goes on!

*I am obviously not an expert and do realize that different situations (such as a very thin woman with little breast tissue, and/or a very large implant,etc) may not and probably don't have as much of a possibility of yielding as "natural" of a result - and I am not trying to insult any doctor by saying that a BA ALWAYS can and ALWAYS should look natural considering all of this - I am simply pointing out my belief based on my individual experience and research, that most women who choose an appropriately sized implant, with a good surgeon and no complications, will probably yield a natural looking and feeling result, as I know that it is a worry/concern for those on the fence about BA. I know it was definitely a concern of mine going into it, and so I figured I would post my thoughts regarding the matter in hopes that it might help someone in a similar situation... or just for those who may be curious :)

Bra shopping!

Took the girls shopping for a bit today! They are looking better & better everyday. The swelling is gone so I figured it's an appropriate enough time to see what size I am now!
First things first, Victoria's Secret is on crack. They measured me as a 32DDD... I looked at the lady like she was crazy but she told me to try it anyway. I figured what the hell, then I could laugh at how big it was. Turns out it fit. I am sorry, but they are just not that big. I knew that VS embellishes their sizes a little so I expected to be a little bigger than normal in their sizes, but Jesus.
Also, I have BEEN a DDD before when I was younger before my ED. I may have been "smaller" back then (I don't think so though, really, but maybe younger they seemed bigger idk) but I know what a real DDD looks like and it's not these.
I am holding my arms up to hide my tattoos (sorry lol) so they do look a little smaller in this photo than they really are when I'm just standing, but they are probably *actually* a 34 C-D. Currently I'm wearing some old 34Ds and they fit, but we all know sizes can be different in different brands... yadda yadda.
Tried some on at target and was between D and DD. I think that this really just shows that a cup size means pretty much nothing these days. Everyone has their own image in their head of what a "C" or "D" cup is, so that's why it's important to aim for a particular look in BA rather than a particular cup size. Bring pictures to your consult and do your research to figure out the size you want, and worry about your cup size after the fact!
I am very happy with my new look and don't care what cup size they are - they look appropriately sized for my body (one reason I know they are not a DDD... lol) and look and feel more natural and more a part of me everyday! :)


Kind of weird, but lately the past few days the girls have been actually feeling MORE fake to me than before.
Don't get me wrong, they are pretty soft and squishy feeling still, and they LOOK more & more natural everyday... but idk something about them just feels more plastic-y than before, if that makes sense. But who knows... it could be just all in my head! Lol
I definitely was surprised at how quickly they softened up and how normal they felt. I definitely got lucky with never having to experience the high-riding implant phenomenon and waiting for them to drop, since I had to have my crease lowered, and they softened up nicely after 5 or 6 days which was crazy! I'm still only 12 days post-op so I know they have some changing to go through for quite a while, so trying not to get too worked up about any slight changes since I know I should expect them, lol.
I really want to ask someone to feel them and tell me if they think they are real or not! Lol. It's too hard knowing you have them or asking someone who knows you have them (not many people, in my case, anyway) cause since they know there's something in there it's hard to say whether or not it feels like there is when it's in their head already that there is... if that makes sense. Lol!
The only downside to having them already where they're supposed to be at 12 days out, and the only thing I'm "worried" about at this point is possibly bottoming out. PS still has me wearing underwire 24/7 to prevent that from happening since they are already in their "dropped" position. I don't think it's anything to be toooo concerned about, but I am fairly slim and don't know how thick/thin my skin is so hopefully it does well with healing them in the position they are now with the help of the underwire. I also wish I could go braless, at least to sleep, but... Oh well. At least I have one somewhat comfortable UW sports bra to sleep in. I got a new underwire sports bra from VS that I thought I'd love, but it seems I need to go back and exchange for a bigger size! I kept going back & forth between the 34D&DD and figured since it was a sports bra and my main objective right now is to keep them exactly where they are, I might want the smaller size so it would fit a bit snug, but it's TOO snug. I just feel like they aren't a freakin 34DD but I was trying on & fitting into 32DDDs the other day which is essentially the same size, so I guess I must be that size. They just really don't seem that big to me at ALL. Especially since, like I said, I've HAD DDD breasts before and they were much larger than this! So confusing lol.
I did see someone make a comment the other day that "augmented breasts measure larger but feel a lot smaller than natural breasts of the same size" which I guess must be true because it's what I'm experiencing and what it seems like other ladies have experienced too! I even asked my friend that came to the hospital with me if I'm just crazy thinking that they're probably closer to a full C/small D and she said that that's what she would have guessed too, so it's not just me. I guess I'm glad I didn't get a larger implant cause I wouldn't be able to find bras very easily if that was the case -_____- I mean I guess theoretically I could go up in band size and get a larger bra but then the bra isn't comfortable. I should really be wearing a 32 which puts me at 32DDD, meaning 1) the bra is more expensive (so lame that they do this for larger cup sizes) and 2) there's pretty limited options as it is. So if I went larger I'd probably have a very difficult time and would need to order bras online I guess lol. Either way I think they are a good size for my body and look even more natural than I expected soooo yeah! Good size choice all around lol.


Well.... I'm bummed. I slipped and fell while moving stuff today and fell pretty much straight on my chest. I heard a loud "pop" and freaked out thinking it was my implant... but my breast was realllly soft following it. I called my doc straight away and spent basically all day touching base with the nurses about my current state. From what it sounds like it's very very unlikely I hurt the implant, and I'm probably going to be ok but I'm definitely tender and in pain. And I'm just bummed. I was starting to feel 100% normal and now I feel just ouchie again, and of course there's the anxiousness surrounding it with me hoping nothing goes wrong because of the fall.
I'm lucky to have no bruising or significant looking damage and it's swollen but not too much. No hematoma danger thus far so that's lucky. My guess is that I popped the capsule... and now I'm wondering what this means. Did I just increase my chance for capsular contracture by doing that? Was I already developing it if it was hard enough for me to hear a sort of pop? How much is this going to delay my healing? etc.
My other guess would be that I tore a muscle or something like that. I really don't know, but I guess I'll be on bed rest until it gets better which means even longer with no gym and no skiing.
Cross your fingers for me guys. Hopefully everything will be ok on the other side of this. I'm feeling pretty disheartened right now.

Just a small update

Since my last update was about my fall, I figured I'd post a short update. So far things are looking good and steadily improving, and the excess swelling in the side that was bothering me has pretty much gone away. Still monitoring it to make sure it looks pretty good but my spirits are up based on the progress so far. The pain is also gone for the most part.
I'm a little bummed. I think they got a little bit smaller... but now I can't tell. Lol. They seem a little smaller but they were also a bit swollen from me falling so maybe they just seem smaller to me because that swelling has disappeared... idk. I still think they look like they fit my body really well so I guess that's what matters!
I also took my steri strips off since I'm almost at three weeks... and so far my incisions look great! On the right side, I can barely even tell because the incision is disguised so well. On the left, the incision extends a little into my skin so it's slightly more noticeable... but I'm not worried about it. They're only 3 weeks old so that means they will only improve from here! If this is the worst they'll be, I'm definitely okay with that!
Anyway, like I said just a quick little update on what's going on with the girls. I'll post some new photos with the incisions and everything soon!

Dr. Creasman is really attentive and really listens to what you want. We had a very thorough consultation and he heard my wishes loud and clear... and actually knew what I wanted more than I did by the end of it! (I had decided on some HP implants initially... and while he was hesitant because he knew I wanted a very natural look and feel, after some gentle persuasion and explanation of the differences between the implants, he said if I really wanted them and thought that I would be happy with the result, ultimately it was my body and we would go for it. The more I looked at my consult photos (with examples of both) and researched the different styles, the more I felt myself being pulled towards MPs... and eventually changed my mind. He was relieved because he knew it would yield more of the result I had asked for, but didn't want to try to convince me into them if I was adamant about a different implant. And I am glad that I changed my mind also!) He did a great job, was very warm, welcoming, and friendly, and so far I am beyond happy with my results. His staff is extremely friendly, helpful, and just all around wonderful as well! The nurse called me a few days before the surgery to go over my sheet once again and answer any questions/concerns, the anesthesiologist also called me the night before to go over the procedure and answer any questions or concerns, and Dr. Creaseman called me the night I had my surgery done to check on me and ensure I was feeling well/everything was going smoothly. Rest assured that if you choose Dr. C, you will be in great hands! EDIT/ADDITION: I really appreciate how Dr. C does his best to take care of his patients. We had an issue with a small rash on my side, that Dr. C was slightly concerned about, and he made sure to prescribe me some precautionary antibiotics, as well as schedule additional appointments to check up on my condition to make sure it was improving. I'm not 100% sure on etiquette in these situations, so I may be wrong - but I feel as though it would have been easy for him to say something like "you might want to see your general practitioner about that if it gets worse" as we both knew that the rash wasn't a result of the surgery, but instead he took matters into his own hands and made sure that I was comfortable, happy, and most of all SAFE (as the infection could have spread to my implants had it been serious) and made sure to keep an eye on it himself. I thought this was extremely professional and courteous of him to do. Maybe it's standard practice for things like this, but nevertheless, I felt that the way he handled it was professional and showed that he really cared. I highly recommend Dr. C and am super glad I chose him as my PS!

5 out of 5 stars Overall rating
5 out of 5 stars Doctor's bedside manner
5 out of 5 stars Answered my questions
5 out of 5 stars After care follow-up
5 out of 5 stars Time spent with me
5 out of 5 stars Phone or email responsiveness
5 out of 5 stars Staff professionalism & courtesy
5 out of 5 stars Payment process
5 out of 5 stars Wait times
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