Not Sure So Far. Little Hard to Make Expressions. // - Oregon

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Had it done a week ago on the forehead for the...

Had it done a week ago on the forehead for the first time. My experience is mixed so far. I really loved it for the first few days and then I started feeling like it might be a little much. It's hard to make normal expressions and this is weird for me. I Hope the effects dont increase at all at this point and hopefully decrease or soften a bit. I like it but really hope we didn't mistakenly overdo it, or I had more reaction than predicted, being the first time... we tried to be conservative and I still wanted some movement there. I'm really keeping my fingers crossed things soften down a bit from here. I don't exactly regret it but that would improve my experience.

Ok update time. // hope this works. ok so its been...

ok update time. // hope this works. ok so its been 3 months now.

I am VERY not happy. this whole thing was probably the biggest mistake of my life in a lot of ways. I feel like I paid a ridiculous amount of money to look ten years older and like a bitch... and im quite afraid all the awful changes might not go. //i looked SO MUCH YOUNGER and better before dysport. they havent even sent me any rebate yet. // VERY MESSED UP. so this is the timeline so far.

week 1: in week one I actually liked it. the top of my face was just a little relaxed but my eyebrows were still very light and could raise all the way. my eyes were still sparkly and i just looked a little rested. if it stayed like that, I would have been really really happy. HOWEVER --

week 2: in week two it just kept moving further and further down my face. my eyebrows dropped down and became like rocks, i lost all my arch, i had no expression, no sparkle in my eyes, i could not look delighted or surprised or happy. i looked really really awful and i felt really awful. i woke up everyday freaking out as it got stronger and stronger and i knew there was nothing i could do. it looked and felt very unnatural for me and i absolutely, completely hated it.

1 month: at one month except for my eyebrows being like rocks and my forehead being very unnaturally smooth, (awful) it started to affect my mood. i began to have really bad anxiety and even suicidal thoughts. i think it was very claustrophobic for me to feel paralyzed that much, and it made me feel really sick and unhealthy psychologically. i even felt as though i had done something unhealthy spiritually. i went on hydroxyzine which helped a lot. // i have never previously been suicidal -or- been treated for anxiety so this was -very- out of character. im still taking the hydroxyzine.

also, I have been with my lover for 2 years and we have never yet had even one argument. he says i am one of the nicest people he's ever met. well in month 2 of dysport we began to have really really bad fights. he said i was being 'offensive' 'a jerk' and 'mean'.. even though i was just being my normal self, since my face looked so unnaturally hard and bitchy, it made a lot of people not just my boyfriend misinterpret my commmunications and caused a LOT of interpersonal problems in a lot of situations. // i had to actually stop seeing my lover for the last month because i couldnt stand the thought he was perceiving me these ways and it was causing us so much problems and i knew it was only because of the hard, bitchy look of my face. ALL of this was massively out of character for me and a HUGE HUGE DRAG.

i feel like it gave me a more symmetrical face for about 3 weeks. all the other time, it was either coming on and looked absolutely awful, or wearing off and looking even more awful... i was hoping it would improve as it wore off, but really i just look worse, more wrinkles, and very unnatural.

month 2: at the end of month 2 it started wearing off significantly. thank god. now its the end of month 3 and i was really hoping it would all be gone by now but its not quite. there may be another month of this.

the absolute worst thing is that for some reason i have really, really extremely ugly new wrinkles. (i have pics) wayy more awful than anything i had before. the wrinkles i had before had character and looked like me. (i didn't want them to go anyhow my goal of treatment was not to get rid of wrinkles! it was just to open up my face a bit. i never wanted to get rid of my wrinkles) so at this point, i feel maybe 75% back to normal, almost passably normal. i can go out in public and not feel weird, but its still hard for me to be around people i love and know well cause i just dont feel like 'me'.

also these new wrinkles are extremely ugly. i dont really know why, but they really are. im way more self conscious about how i look now, because it looks totally unnatural and really fake and gross. so i actually feel a lot worse about my looks now than i ever did. i never cared about my wrinkles anyhow. that wasn't why i wanted dysport! i didn't care about my lines i jsut wanted my face opened up and lightened up a bit and to look a little rested. i was given WAY TOO BIG A DOSE FOR THIS. even though both my dr and i knew i wanted a light dose. this was stilll way, way way more than i would have ever wanted. i would have liked it about 20% this strength. // or less.

so right now, i have pics of the new lines and im really, really hoping it all settles down and goes away. i have before pics and they were definitely not there before. im keeping stuf really moisturized, doing a lot of cardio and steam room in case that helps. // im feeling abpit 75% maybe now.. but i have no idea how long it will take until i -really- go back to 'normal' and im really, really hoping and praying that i do. i saw my dr but at that point the new wrinkles were not there yet. i jsut told him it was way too strong so far and he really apologized and was very very nice about it. i see him again soon and i really hope he can tell me whats up. if i go back to normal at this point, i will feel VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY lucky.

also a note: some drs here took issue with me defending my dr and saying he did a 'good job'. all i meant by that was this wasn't a super botch that happened at a slumber party or something. i didn't have any lid drooping or leaking or spreading or anything really wrong, it was just way too strong for me and possibly, spread further than anticipated.. which i understand can happen with a first treatment. thats what i meant by that. yes, this was a terrible job for what i was looking for. however it wasn't a super botch, (praise god) i just didn't like it so strong.

so ok hopefully we are goign back to normal. im jsut trying to relax a lot and not pay attention to it and hopefully it will just be better soon. i will come back and update as things go on and i will add pics if necessary.

as of now: i strenuously warn everyone i know considering this stuff to RECONSIDER. i think this a very potent poison and as we all know the dose makes the poison. i think that most people especially people who have health problems (flu like stuff etc) are being way, way overdosed with this stuff. i think the company sells it in $400 increments, and as a result drs will give patients too much when they dont need it, since it will otherwise go to waste. classic.

NOTE ABOUT PICS: ok so I wanted to add a note...


ok so I wanted to add a note about the pics I added with my recent question. I thought that would help make it obvious that there is some stuff going on that really, really really wasnt before. so I want to clarify some stuff.

1) yeah i look pretty upset. that's cause i am upset. not at the drs here who help for free or even my dr but what I really feel is really deceptive marketing on the part of allergan. first I mainly tried this stuff because there was a rebate. (still have not gotten any rebate) 2) it was supposed to make me look and feel 'better' and its made me feel terrible and i dont feel i look too great either. 3) i was led to believe the effects would be completely gone by now if i did not like them and they are obviously not. I feel pretty reasonably upset i think about -all- that stuff.

also i want to clarify what i mean by looking 'worse'. to be specific: what has happened first is that my face totally dropped and lost all shape and i couldnt raise my eyebrows. that looked worse. now that it is wearing off, the whole topography of my face has changed, all the lines are in different places and different shapes. i think these new shapes are considerably less aesthetic than when they were in their natural positions.

however worse than that, the two vertical lines above my right eyebrow WERE NOT THERE AT ALL BEFORE. they are completely new. i was hoping the pics would show that. i am activating the muscles in one of the after pics but -not- the other one. these lines are very evident when i am not moving at all. they are more evident when my face is still than other lines i have had for years. thats what i was trying to show with the pictures. im a little upset that anyone would think or say i dont seem to know what i look like? // i really do think that i know what is on my own face. so i was upset about that too.

anyway i was feeling pretty sick of waking up looking and feeling like hell when i was told the effects would be 'all' gone at this point, having not got the rebate and basically those pics show exactly how i feel about all that. i was just hoping soemone could explain to me what the hell happened and if there was anything more proactive i could do to help it heal.

Yes well i really couldnt be more upset right now....

yes well i really couldnt be more upset right now. its sooo depressing. // everyday i wake up with these horrible marks. and it pisses me off beyond words that anyone would try to tell me i dont remember what my own face looks like. dammit that makes me really really upset. people, i look at my face everyday. i know what i look like.

im really, really trying to stay positive that this will go away, im trying to believe that and im trying to focus on that.. i really hope this will all go away and i will have a good outcome. thats really what im focusing on and hoping for.

but its hard to see how. ive tried ice packs and massage and resistance exercises and cardio and steam rooms. ive been drinking tons of water and vitamin c and b complex and fish oil. sometimes it seems to minimize a bit, but then next morning its totally back. i am FURIOUS FURIOUS FURIOUS. it would have been bad enough if this just made me look and feel like shit for four long, expensive months, (which it did) and then worn off LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO and gone away. WHICH IT HASN'T. i am sure hoping this goes away. im not putting up any photos because i will only put up photos when i am back to normal and my face is fixed. thats what i want to focus on. i am going to come here and put up pics, AFTER i am fixed and better and this has gone back to normal. thats what going to happen, right everyone? so i'll be back here doing that when it does.

i see my dr on the 20th and i really can't wait to hear what he says. im quite sure he will not accuse me of forgetting what my own face looks like. it should be totally obvious these marks are totally new, and the main reason is: at the time i went for treatment, i went specifically about the -one- vertical crease i had above my left eyebrow. it was the -only- vertical mark on my face except the 11 lines. and that was what i pointed out for treatment, that ONE LINE. the only one that was there at the time. //

so its pretty obvious if i go in there with one small crease on the left side, and also two massive large ugly creases on the right side, why would i go in and only ask him about the smaller mark on the left side and not say anything about the much worse and more obvious marks on the other side? i think i would have pointed out the other ones then too, IF THEY WERE THERE. WHICH THEY WERE NOT. those ugly, unnatural marks were created directly as a result of using the dysport, they were not there before, dysport created them.

i didn't say anything about those marks at my original app... didnt mention them, had no concerns about them. why, because they were not there and did not exist at that time. // simple. i will be back here with my pictures when i am back to normal. if the drs here are telling the truth, this will 'return to baseline' and these awful marks will go away and i will be like i was before since it was the dysport that directly caused this damage. fingers crossed.

Hahaha all you who want to tell me I dont know...

hahaha all you who want to tell me I dont know what my own face looks like, you should be ashamed.

I went to my doctor and brought my own pictures from before. he did not even TRY to tell me any bullshit at all. his assistant did, she said 'maybe you just got used to being smooth' however he did -not- agree and I had the pictures and she shut up fast. its completely obvious to anyone that knows me even in passing, and this dr has known me a long time, that these marks are very unnatural and would never have gotten onto my face in any normal way especially in the space of 2 months.

my dr to his everlasting credit told me that he had 'learned a lesson' from my case and that he should have taken much more time to evaluate my individual facial structure rather than giving me the standard injection pattern that he did. he agreed with me that my face is naturally asymmetrical, and that by not taking that into account with his injection pattern, he had made a mistake. bless his heart. this is the best update i can give so far.

i am still waiting to go back to normal. i -feel- mostly normal now, most of the anxiety and creepy feelings, insomnia and weird foggy-headedness have passed. i just a little stiff which is annoying.. but i still do not look normal and this is very difficult. im honestly really embarassed to look like this.

my eleven lines are slowly shifting back to where they belong praise god. and i feel as though slowly, so slowly, these marks are fading. im trying to be hopeful but oh it is going so slow. im trying to ignore it and just work on relaxing and getting better, im eating well keeping moisturized and doing lots of yoga and steam room and light massage and just trying to stay relaxed and hope for the best. thank god my dr didn't try to bullshit me. he takes pride in his work and i know he wants his patients to be happy. he admitted he made a mistake, and hes gone over and above to help me feel better and thats made alot of difference. good for him. i am stil hoping for a positive outcome and be back to my beautiful, normal, compassionate empathetic expressive self real soon.

Ok guys another note. just got an answer from a dr...

ok guys another note. just got an answer from a dr grant stevens, seems like a very nice person, i appreciate his kindness in answering, however again telling me that the muscles in my 'after' pictures are contracted.

the muscles in my after pics are NOT contracted. thats the problem. i look like that completely at rest. thats the problem. those lines were totally not there before and my doctor already agrees both from the pictures and knowing me in person, thats the problem. this is happening COMPLETELY AT REST. NO MOVEMENT OR CONTRACTION AT ALL. my doctor already admitted he made a mistake and the lines were -not- there before... and are there totally at rest.. so its pointless and actually pretty hurtful to try to say different at this point though i appreciate the answer etc. what would help a lot more is to admit a mistake was made, admit that this stuff can cause terrible problems, as my dr was good enough to do, and get real about what might fix it or help it rather than try to be in denial.

now, i see him feb 7th and i will be asking him for suggestions on fixing this and hopefully doing it at no charge, although, i really dont see either how thats possible, nor do i trust this product very much at all anymore. // i sure hope he has some ideas.

i continue to be as healthy as i can and do light massage and drink lots of water and exercise a lot and try to ignore it. sometimes i think it is fading, and sometimes it comes back very strong, usually in the morning or when im tired. but its always there totally at rest.

the sad part is, i can tell it could have been a totally different and probably positive experience if i had just insisted on a much more careful and restrained approach. // i should have known much better what i wanted, and i should have made it much more clear. i told him i wanted to 'still make expressions' and still 'look like me'. i didn't want to be frozen i wanted a very subtle effect. i thought that was enough and he said he understood, but i obvoiusly did not stress that enough.

with just a small light subtle dose in the right place, this might have been a good experience, instead of a nightmarish horror. it makes me want to cry when i wake up every morning. this has been very devastating for me. so please if you want to comment on any of this please be real. its very hurtful and impacting all areas of my life so please, please dont add insult to injury if you choose to answer any of my questions. its already been established and admitted to by my doctor this issue is real, not there before, and happening when im totally at rest. he fully admitted he made a mistake and he feels terrible. so all i want to know at this point from anyone here is, why something like this might have happened, have you ever seen it before, is it reversible, and what would -you- do to fix it.

i am still hopeful it will go away on its own. im still hopeful there will be a net positive outcome because i really do trust my dr. this is what im hoping for. so any answers to my questions focusing on that kind of thing would be welcome and very much appreciated.

Ok well update. after all these months it is not...

ok well update. after all these months it is not so puffy in the mornings as it was, (praise god ) and ive actually gone a few days this week without needing pain medicine for headsaches. went back to my doctor and tried to be really nice and make sure he knew i didn't blame him. however, this time, he just looked very confused. he said 'maybe try acupuncture' then said -nothing- about when i could expect this to resolve !! he did not tell me it would go away, when it would go away, or if it would ever go away. nothing. he looked like a deer in headlights. he said he had nothing that would fix it. then he squeezed my hand and left without making another appointment. that was not fun. so at first i blamed the dysport but now im pretty sure the dr just overdosed me. i think he just did a fucked up job and he knows it. so i guess there is little more i can get in the way of help from him because he's obviously incompetent with dysport, even though hes very experienced and past pres of AAPS. im sure he feels bad and he should because this REALLY SUCKED. but honestly, i expected much much better from him . i was really disappointed how little he had to offer me. ive also defended him quite a bit but soon i will place his name here. thats a shame. wish he had continued to be supportive.

right now when people ask me should they try dysport i telll them to go down to the railroad tracks and pay a homeless person $20 to hit them with a rock. the results will be beter, it will cost less, and the recovery will be faster and les painful. thats my review of dysport.

just renewed my gym membership and that is all i will focus on now. im ready for this to be over, this has taken over every aspect of my life, i have to watch the light now in public places so i dont look like shit, i cant sleep over at my bf's because first thing in the morning i look like a freak and have to massage and massage to look even half normal, every morning and night plus ice packs and warm packs. i can never predict what will happen day to day its always changing and totally unpredictable. its literlly taken over my fucking life in the worst way. at five months now i must be through the worst of it. so just this month super detox marathon. i really feel its going to minimize. i really really do. right now i have no choice but to put all my energy toward getting the last of this bullshit out of my body. much of my normal tone is back but i still look completely different, and have a lot of lack of tone/stiffness/weakness between my eyes. hopefully serious exercise this month will hasten the end of this truly fucked up ordeal. the saddest thing is if it had been done corectly, i think it actually would have been a good experience. so disgusted with this bullshit.

Ok here we are halfway through march. i have gone...

ok here we are halfway through march. i have gone from looking freakish to only abnormal... from looking horrifying to just, ugly. so i guess thats an improvement?
i still look really bad in the mornings but it isn't quite so bad. it is definitely very much till there. but the fact it fades at all, gives me hope. it is taking a LOOOONG time to fade away, but, i am still hopeful. it is very uncomfortable too, and has changed the way i feel in my body, it has changed the way i move, it is making me feel very depressed and tired, and also, it has really dulled my sex drive. this was an unexpected result and im not sure if its just cause im so damn stressed and tired, or some other reason.

still exercising, eating well, and i have STOPPED the meds i was taking.. i was taking muscle relaxers for the past ten years for sleep.. (due to head injury) and also, hydroxyzine which is an anticholinergic medicine. i feel with the large amount of anticholinergic medicines i have taken over the years, (other drugs that interfere with acetylcholine) i could have had too great an anticholinergic 'load' on my system, which may be one reason i had such a strong reaction. // and also, why it seemed to take so much longer to get better than it should. i mentioned to my dr that i was taking these meds and he took no notice. // it says right in the paperwork to tell your dr if you take muscle relaxants. so i dont know why he would ignore that, but he did. ive been very very very very disappointed with my drs reaction. i really expected better. i have reduced his rating significantly due to his failure to give me even one sensible answer, explanation, or suggestion for how to help this.

i am finding doctors who are telling me this happened because i was given too strong a dose, and it was applied carelessly and unevenly... they say that it is 'muscle recruitment'. that is all they can tell me. none of them has told me definiively it will definitely go away. it is funny how before this happened, everone assured me that no matter how awful the result, it ALWAYS goes away. now this has happened, suddenly noone is saying that.

i am learning a lot more about acetylcholine and also, the FDA. it is not great news. at least i am finding out why doctors seem so often in denial about this product. for some reason (read, $$$) they are taught by the manufacturers to downplay negative results. they are trained at training sessions ways to deflect questions 'its not related' or 'i disagree you look worse' are two classic examples and this is why patients so often hear these two phrases among others from so many different doctors when things go wrong. its all crafted to avoid liability and keep focus off the manufacturers, from requiring stricter warning labels or bad publicity. this is why so many of our doctors deny our problems and blame us for what has gone wrong. gues i shouldnt be surprised. its all about money for allergan and medicis. the sad thing is a lot of good doctors seem to be taken in by the hype, and believe the advertising, rather than their patients.. so they deny when reactions happen, rather than helping. very sad.

also, acetylcholine is a vital chemical in the body. it is a neurotransmitter that controls many many many vital functions including sleep, attentiveness, sex drive, and -many- other things besides muscle movement. i am -not- convinced that botox does not cross the blood brain barrier, and if dysport has even smaller molecules, it seems the risk is even greater with dysport. i also think the fact that it is so hard to get information when things go wrong, is because honestly noone really does understand how this stuff works. they are fortunate when it goes well, but when stuff goes wrong, they are lost, and this is when their lack of understanding shows. i think it can be used safely in a some people perhaps, or at least without evident damage, however, what happens when things go wrong is so severe, and so life changing, that i feel this stuff must realistically be treated with much, much greater care and caution than it currently is. and doses should be MUCH more conservative. MUCH. for everyone. again, it is only the manufacturers who benefit by selling 400 units at a time when many people need and want much, much less.

i am only coming back here to keep this updated. it has been almost seven months now and it sure would be great if i could feel normal again. i wear hats and try not to think about it. hopefuly, it will continue to fade.
Name not provided

This is a great very experienced doctor with a great staff I have been to him for other things.

5 out of 5 stars Overall rating
4 out of 5 stars Doctor's bedside manner
1 out of 5 stars Answered my questions
2 out of 5 stars After care follow-up
4 out of 5 stars Time spent with me
3 out of 5 stars Phone or email responsiveness
3 out of 5 stars Staff professionalism & courtesy
4 out of 5 stars Payment process
4 out of 5 stars Wait times
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