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POSTED UNDER Facelift REVIEWS

Don't Just Choose Surgeon, but Backup and Support Staff!

ORIGINAL POST

Surgeon: Dr. Tholen Backup caregiver when Tholen...

kwchichi
WORTH IT$13,500
Surgeon: Dr. Tholen
Backup caregiver when Tholen in hospital: his partner, Gervais
Tholen gets mostly high marks for being approachable
Marks for facelift: adequate
Marks for necklift: POOR, I still have a turkey gobble, left side barely improved.
NOTICE how few facelift reviews are here for Minneapolis Plastic Surgery.
The partner surgeon, Gervais is someone to be very cautious of.
Suffers from poor boundary issues.
Office staff: Sarah is fabulous, but business mgr. Patient-contact people are called “nurses” but have no obvious medical training. They simply parrot what they’ve heard. Don’t know difference between sensory and motor nerves. I know more about anatomy under skin from my training and research than they do. Poor customer service skills when things not going smoothly.

My Story about Minneapolis Plastic Surgery
To be included in future facelift article

It has been three months since my facelift. Because my surgeon has recently received an emergency surgery, I am in my surgeon’s office but meeting with his surgeon-business-partner, who later this day I will learn –by all appearances-- is not excited to be offering care to a patient for whom no bill can be sent. I paid my surgeon for my care even before I went to surgery. Office staff tried in vain to get me to wait 30 days for my surgeon to return to work, but my last consult was –eleven-- days after surgery when my face and neck were still overly swollen. I am now at day --seventy-- and I have need of talking to someone with medical knowledge about the motor nerve damage leaving my upper right lip paralyzed, lumpy swelling on my right cheek, and uncorrected saggy neck skin on the left side of my neck that I am certain will require a second surgery. My doctor doesn’t know yet of my need for a second surgery because although I tried to see him in the 4th week I was told by his “nurse” not to bother him until after 6 weeks of ultrasound treatments. Then six weeks later, the day before that appointment I was told because he was getting his own surgery I would need to wait another four weeks. Well, I knew that was never going to happen. Enough is enough! I fought to get in to see his partner, the other surgeon. It’s not a pretty story. Just remember what I’m saying. I was forced to fight to see my surgeon’s partner after 10 weeks of being blocked from seeing my own surgeon.
*

I am sitting in an examination chair, not unlike a dentist’s chair. My heels are hooked on the attached footrest and the chair is in the upright position, but said chair is made to lean back when stitches are removed or treatment of some kind is rendered. This new doctor – my surgeon’s partner-- and I are talking, but he thinks I am only there to get a steroid shot for my still overly swollen right cheek. He makes a big announcement and lectures me about why he cannot give me the shot. He insists I return for four more weeks of ultrasound treatments and then see my own doctor, which is beginning to frustrate me because (1) I have three issues to discuss, and (2) I have done the research and there is no published evidence that ultrasound helps repair damaged tissue. Because I live outstate, a fifteen minute ultrasound treatment costs me 3-4 hours with commute and since I’ve noticed zero improvement from what seems to be the standard offer of six weeks of free ultrasound treatments, at this time I’m feeling like they are simply placating me with more cheap tricks while I wait for my doctor to return. These treatments may be cheap to them, but they are not cheap to me. So doc#2 and I kind of go round and round.
Then suddenly doc#2--Gervais-- sits down on a stool and pulls it directly in front of the procedural chair in which I sit. This is about the time I ask him if he would be willing(since i can't get to my own doc-- to do my second surgery, and a few minutes after answering “yes,” he rolls the stool closer and then places both feet on the foot rest alongside my own feet. One of his feet now rests right next to my right foot and one rests right next to my left foot. He has pinned me into place. There is no place for me to go. I want desperately to get up and move to a chair at the back of the room, but I cannot. There’s no place to put my feet except between his legs. I’m voiceless. I’m paralyzed. I’m weirded-out.
I don’t remember how this event fits within the rest of our conversation, but at some point he backs off. I do remember continuing to be very angry and testy throughout the rest of the conversation. I leave feeling disturbed. Confused. Angry.

*

By the end of the week, my long silent surgeon finally phones me. By this time, though, I have already been courting the idea that it might be best for me to research other surgeons for my second surgery, which I won’t need for months. If I stay with my surgeon his work will be free, or included in the original professional fee, but this week it has become very clear to me that this is not about the money. Money is simply not the reason to stay with this office. It turns out I like my surgeon but I do not like the way his “nurse” handles problems (i.e. me) when he is gone, and I’m presently loathing his partner who is the only one there is to offer backup care in the event something else goes wrong for my chosen doctor. But i'm also concerned that if he did a poor job on my neck the first time if he even would be able to do an adequate fix the second time around.
I tell my surgeon on the phone that I am unhappy that I had to fight to get an appointment with his partner. I don’t tell him that his partner has now been added to my “Weird Doctor” list. Not knowing even how to reconcile the weird doctor’s behavior with what must be universal expectations of proper doctor decorum, and not wanting to worry my worryful partner, I’m aware when I hang up the phone that I have yet to tell my husband about this new upsetting little event with a medical professional.
*

On his first day back in the office, I drive to Minneapolis to see my surgeon. During the drive from outstate I notice my eyes pinch and hurt, my vision blurs. I stop to drink a cup of coffee to open up the blood vessels to my brain. It helps, but I am surprised that I am feeling symptoms of intense stress. Symptoms that only plague me during the worst moments of my life. I didn’t know I felt this bad about returning to my surgeon’s office. My body is telling me I’m still fearful of what I’ve tried not to complain about. What I’ve not told to anyone.
The office visit reminds me why I chose this surgeon. I really like him. But on this day at this time I hate everything else about this office. I especially hate his “nurse” who made me fight to see his partner. Who treated me like a seventh grader. Who wanted me to be a good little soldier and wait to see my own doctor, first for six weeks, then for four more. I talk about my frustrations, then finally give it to her directly – with both guns-- all the while knowing although I am justified in complaining about the staff being expedient but uncaring, the uncontrollable ranting of my delivery is undermining my case. But I am also aware of what I am not sharing; the revulsion I feel for this practice’s other surgeon. Why do men act stupid like that? He knew he was invading my personal space. But I fear to have so many complaints at once could only make me look crazy, like I am piling it on. At the worst I might be accused of making the whole thing up, and the least I might just be seen as someone who is never happy with anything. All the way home I am forced to drive with pinching painful eyes, and I keep thinking about how surprisingly stressful it has been for me to return to that office.

*
When my husband comes home he inquires about my visit with my surgeon. I’m prepared. I’ve already scheduled another appointment at a time he can accompany me because I don’t want to go alone. Today my body has taught me how uncomfortable I am in my surgeon’s office, and I need my husband to help me figure out the safest place to get my second surgery. Finally I tell my husband about how Dr. Gervais moved into my personal space, trapped me in the examination chair, and willfully attempted to intimidate me into... what? Compliant behavior? Making me not want to see him again? Using reverse psychology to temper my frustration for having to get into a fight to see him? What was Gervais thinking? That I would never tell my doctor what he had done? Or was he hoping I would? Did he plan to defend himself by saying I was crazy and it never happened? Has he ever done this to any other patient or was I the first one? Where was his head????
I can’t figure it out and now neither can my spouse.
I just want to walk away. I really don’t want to deal with this. I’m damn sad that my surgeon wasn’t able to finish my neck the first time around.

kwchichi's provider

Richard H. Tholen, MD, FACS

Richard H. Tholen, MD, FACS

Board Certified Plastic Surgeon

4.9 | 349 Reviews
PROFILE

kwchichi rating for Dr. Tholen:

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Replies (6)

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December 30, 2016
I'm sorry you had such a negative experience that you have chosen to publicly excoriate me for what seems to have happened when I was absent following my own (neck disc) surgery (unfortunately, twice). You see, even surgeons who have surgery do not have guaranteed "perfect" outcomes, and when we are out of commission, we have to rely on partner and nursing staff coverage when absent for a multitude of reasons, even vacation or family events. I was unable to see your during your own facelift recovery while recovering from my two neck surgeries, not because I was "blocking" your recheck visits, but neither was I informed of any concerns. You had my home phone number given to you in your post-op written instructions, and I would have been happy to answer a personal call even if I was not in the office. In fact, when I was apprised of your concerns, I called you at home. I understand the frustration of not being able to return for post visits because of living at a distance, and apologize for your discomfort and obvious dissatisfaction with the follow-up you received. I am personally glad your surgical concerns are resolving with time and treatment, which is what happens with many post-op issues that you describe. Persistent skin laxity can indeed require secondary surgery, which is why I personally discuss our redo policy with every patient during their consultation, as well as have it in print in your pre-op instructions. Any post-operative complication or concern, major or minor, is something I try to be honest about and deal with appropriately, rather than pretend it's not there, or fail to listen to the patient's concerns (and I have now heard yours twice in person and now twice in print). Did I not listen carefully, and respond understandingly or kindly? This kind of written online reviewe must mean I failed miserably. For that I am so sorry. I hope you can find better care, results, or understanding elsewhere, as this is not the way you would treat someone from whom you wish ongoing care. My most sincere apologies for your experience. Dr. Tholen
December 30, 2016
Why did his office staff not call Dr. Tholen at home to discuss this women's calls to his office? She related her issues to them, they should have then contacted you. This communication might have solved all this angst.
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December 30, 2016
I believe you're right. However, my nursing staff (BTW, except for office administrative staff, they are all trained medical assistants--MA, certified surgical technicians--CST, licensed practical nurses--LPN, registered nurses--RN, certified registered nurse anesthetists--CRNA, physician assistant--PA with an average tenure (experience) in our office of 17+ years) gave her the best follow-up information they were capable of, and were not told that their information was inadequate. This patient could have called me directly--I always give my patients my home phone number on their written post-op instruction sheet, and do NOT have an unlisted phone number--as do the vast majority of other doctors I know--and I always tell my office staff they can contact me even if I am out of town or even out of country. Obviously they felt that my own surgical recovery was not to be interrupted by what they felt they had adequately dealt with--though this patient needed to hear it from me. By the time I was apprised of her concerns, it was too late to prevent her unpleasant interactions with my partner and one of my nurses (medical assistant). You are so right, a little call might have prevented all of this unpleasant angst, not to mention the review. Thanks for your comment! Dr. Tholen
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January 3, 2017

Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you find support in the community.

January 11, 2017
Sorry for your bad experience. We all make up our decision to go through these tough procedures which not only cost us money and time, but also emotional distress. I am also a patient of Dr. Tholen. However, my experience is the completely opposite. Not to discredit your case in any form. My experience with the staff has always been great. They have been super responsive to me. My case is a bit more severe and serious than a facelift. I had a lower body lift which required me visiting him twice a week. I am 5 weeks post OP. Towards the end, my appointments turned into, "let's wait and see how it goes and we schedule". I never had any issue scheduling an appointment and he has been available to me. As I see from Dr. Tholen's response below, he was out due to personal medical issues which are understandable. Maybe the staff should have properly explained this to you. One thing I would give to Dr. Tholen is his accessibility out of office. I scheduled my surgery 7 months in advance. Dr. Tholen gave me his personal number and told me to get in contact with him if any questions come up. I have over 100 text messages between us. As a surgeon he has a duty to listen to us and resolve our concerns specially in post OP. I have texted him after 9pm and on the weekends and he has always gotten back to me. Most my text have been prior to the surgery. As for the office, I have worked with two of his assistants, Tracy and Crystal and they have always been available over phone. Again, I do not discredit your bad experience at all. Undesirable outcome can happen and this is a part of the risk we take. I was so stressed out due to infection and DVT risks that I was near breaking down and cancelling the surgery. Complications are the hard ones. As a person who has a 360 incision around my body, I accept the risk that my nerves might be damaged forever and I might have pain or not sensation. Not that you should suffer from it, but to be realistic, things can go wrong. The nice thing is at least your revision will be covered. Stay strong. I really do know how much it sucks to go through a procedure and not get the care you really hoped for. I cannot also comment on his partner. It is good that you mentioned this. I think the proper way would have been to bring this up with Dr. Tholen first. As you said, Dr. Tholen is a likable guy and he is approachable. As a surgeon he has a duty to provide who great care. This is the oath medical professional take. He is really knowledgeable. Having this review will make it awkward to work with him, but again remember, you are his patient and if you are not happy, he will need to address your concerns. You decide if you want to work with him. If you are completely put off by the whole thing, seek another suergoen's opinion. But do not sit and regret what you did. Things will get better. Wish you the best, a speedy recovery, and ultimately a successful revision procedure which addresses your concerns ;)
Feel free to check out my story.
June 14, 2017
I have known Dr Tholen & staff for many years. They are all a wonderful team who take great pride in patient care. I am sorry you felt like you were not taken care of, however I know this is never how anyone in that practice would want a patient to feel. I'm sure you were made aware of potential complications , risks of surgery & necessary follow-up ultrasound appointments before you decided to proceed. I hope your next surgeon/staff can meet your future surgical needs to your satisfaction.