POSTED UNDER Derma Roller REVIEWS
Microneedling for IPL Damage
ORIGINAL POST
*Please note: Original fat cells that have...
Peyton2012March 3, 2016
*Please note: Original fat cells that have succumbed to necrosis/lipoatrophy because of laser, RF, and/or IPL treatments CANNOT regenerate or replace themselves. They have been destroyed permanently.*
I have not (yet?) evidenced fat or volume loss from a botched IPL treatment done 9/21/15 (please read my IPL review, which I will update 3/21/16 when I hit the 6-month mark), but I have sustained serious damage to the epidermis and dermis that has manifested itself -- so far -- as enlarged pores, shiny skin, dry skin, small indentations, and pronounced wrinkles that extend from the tops of my cheekbones down to my jawline whenever I smile (please see photo).
This is very, very upsetting and annoying. I am used to being mistaken for 10-20 years younger and now people are calling me "ma'am" every five minutes. My sister says my face looks like I sloppily applied a too-dark, too-shiny foundation to only parts of my cheeks -- my cheeks were NOT treated, that is from the EFFING "collateral damage" that can result from laser, RF, and/or IPL procedures.
I have begun weekly microneedling to address the epidermal and dermal issues. I bought a .25mm derma roller and a .50mm dermaroller and am using them on my face (and my neck, chest, the backs of my hands, and the tops of my wrists).
I am going totally against conventional advice and microneedling facial areas with rosacea (no negative reactions so far) and facial areas with acne-prone skin (no negative reactions so far) with the .25mm roller.
I have also purchased:
1) Borage bar to clean skin before dermarolling
2) Emerita Pro-Gest progesterone cream to apply to skin after dermarolling
3) Imedeen, HA, and Neocell Fish Collagen to supplement my usual daily intake of Vitamin D and of B "Stress" Complex + C
I only wash my face if I absolutely have to, and then with just hair conditioner and tap water. I apply olive oil to my face each night, and I wear a hat and sunscreen and a high-necked shirt if I have to be outside.
Microneedling/dermarolling can take months to show results, but I will do anything to try to reverse the double-whammy negative effects of IPL and the onset of menopause that occurred in August of 2015 (I turned 47 in September of that year).
I have not (yet?) evidenced fat or volume loss from a botched IPL treatment done 9/21/15 (please read my IPL review, which I will update 3/21/16 when I hit the 6-month mark), but I have sustained serious damage to the epidermis and dermis that has manifested itself -- so far -- as enlarged pores, shiny skin, dry skin, small indentations, and pronounced wrinkles that extend from the tops of my cheekbones down to my jawline whenever I smile (please see photo).
This is very, very upsetting and annoying. I am used to being mistaken for 10-20 years younger and now people are calling me "ma'am" every five minutes. My sister says my face looks like I sloppily applied a too-dark, too-shiny foundation to only parts of my cheeks -- my cheeks were NOT treated, that is from the EFFING "collateral damage" that can result from laser, RF, and/or IPL procedures.
I have begun weekly microneedling to address the epidermal and dermal issues. I bought a .25mm derma roller and a .50mm dermaroller and am using them on my face (and my neck, chest, the backs of my hands, and the tops of my wrists).
I am going totally against conventional advice and microneedling facial areas with rosacea (no negative reactions so far) and facial areas with acne-prone skin (no negative reactions so far) with the .25mm roller.
I have also purchased:
1) Borage bar to clean skin before dermarolling
2) Emerita Pro-Gest progesterone cream to apply to skin after dermarolling
3) Imedeen, HA, and Neocell Fish Collagen to supplement my usual daily intake of Vitamin D and of B "Stress" Complex + C
I only wash my face if I absolutely have to, and then with just hair conditioner and tap water. I apply olive oil to my face each night, and I wear a hat and sunscreen and a high-necked shirt if I have to be outside.
Microneedling/dermarolling can take months to show results, but I will do anything to try to reverse the double-whammy negative effects of IPL and the onset of menopause that occurred in August of 2015 (I turned 47 in September of that year).
Replies (63)
March 5, 2016
Thank you for your review. I am researching microneedling for exactly the same problem. These machines should be banned. Looking forward to updates.
March 8, 2016
Don't lose hope! Be persistent and you will turn things around. Dermarolling will work.
March 13, 2016
Hi Peyton, I'm new to this board and I found your post while looking for advice on dermarolling. From your picture, it seems that the laser possibly damaged your oil glands and is causing the dry wrinkled skin on your cheeks. I would think that your body would eventually heal them and not worry too much. Your anxiety and smoking will make your skin worse, so try your best to stop cigs and calm down. Meditate and visualize your skin healing and it will do what you ask! Instead of olive oil which is comedogenic, try pracaxi oil. This is a Brazilian oil that helps with scars and pigmentation and will smooth and moisturize very nicely. It's not heavy like olive but it is the best I've tried so far. I have tested it for almost 2 weeks and the acne is going down and scars fading. Fine wrinkles look less noticeable and skin looks plump when I wake up. I wash once a day at night only and use finely ground shikakai powder (1/8tsp will wash whole face and neck) and rinse, go over with a silicone face wash machine (the cheap version of luna) and rinse again with filtered (kdf55) water. I spray face lightly with calendula hydrosol and apply small amount of pracaxi oil with plastic baggie so I don't introduce bacteria on my skin. I keep it in the fridge so it hardens, so the jar it's in I have to transfer to a salve jar but haven't bought one yet. It smells better than cocoa and it will heal the skin. There are other Brazilian oils that can help you as well but this one is on NIH website as documented cases of scars healing as it helps with collagen production. I have a few others I'm waiting to test but I want to give it the three weeks total before adding in another oil to make sure nothing breaks me out. I have tried shea butter before this and that seems to help but you have to make sure you're not allergic to nuts and you need a reputable source. Mango butter is another one I have and used it on my hands and it is super moisturizing. Haven't tried it on my face yet because of testing pracaxi, but that should be a consideration too. Shea and mango are listed as 0 on comedogenic scale, pracaxi I couldn't find but your olive oil is listed at 2, so I'm thinking this may be causing you irritation and blocked pores which will hinder healing. Try a raw honey mask as well, it will add moisture and heal skin, but don't use if you are allergic to bees! Red light therapy is also documented to heal skin, so like another poster said, try that as well. Eat acai berries they are high in vitamin c. Eat chia seeds daily with lots of water and berries. I hope this information will help you. Take it one day at a time and it will get better. Just be thankful it wasn't worse like some of these people with grid marks. And don't go crazy on the dermaroller. Just use it every 6 weeks with 1mm or higher. The shorter ones you can do more often but I wouldn't really chance it since your skin needs moisture and that may irritate and cause more dryness. That is what I have learned from my research on rolling. Hyaluronic acid low molecular weight has some promise on wrinkles too but it works by tricking the skin into healing mode by making it think skin is injured as it can penetrate pores instead of sitting on top like the high molecular weight. Some say a combo of both can help the best but I haven't tried that yet. Best to go to Pubmed nih website to do some more research to see what they are saying. Keep us posted if the dermaroller has any effect. Thanks.
March 13, 2016
Hi pimplequeen, what an informative post, I have never heard of Pracaxi oil before and now I am going to hunt for it, thanks so much for sharing and for supporting others in the community.
March 13, 2016
Thank you very much for your lengthy and information-packed post! Just BTW, IPL is not a laser, but the skin on my cheeks was normal before the treatment and now it is dry -- so, yes, it is quite likely that the oil glands in the dermis were compromised to some degree.
It is very difficult to get an idea of how often to dermaroller and with what length needles since everybody swears by a different regimen. For now I am playing it safe with .25mm and .50mm, and my skin appears to be tolerating weekly treatments quite well. Of course, if something goes awry, I will make the necessary changes.
Thanks also for the recommendation of pracaxi oil, since the olive oil was just a placeholder in my regimen anyway.
It is very difficult to get an idea of how often to dermaroller and with what length needles since everybody swears by a different regimen. For now I am playing it safe with .25mm and .50mm, and my skin appears to be tolerating weekly treatments quite well. Of course, if something goes awry, I will make the necessary changes.
Thanks also for the recommendation of pracaxi oil, since the olive oil was just a placeholder in my regimen anyway.
March 15, 2016
You're welcome! I was nervous about trying out this oil but the science about it was very convincing for me.
March 15, 2016
You're welcome! Sorry about that, I thought you had laser because it was also mentioned in your post with IPL and RF. All of them use heat and cause damage to induce healing. Maybe they screwed up and used the wrong settings or something. I would seriously consider suing the doctor if things don't get better for you. Good luck!
UPDATED FROM Peyton2012
9 days post
Slight peeling, mild itching, and a bit of dryness ...
Peyton2012March 5, 2016
... on chin from extra-assertive dermarolling in that area with my .50mm due to its multiple issues: rosacea, cystic-acne-damaged skin, and IPL-damaged skin.
Perfectly normal, went away in a couple of days.
Perfectly normal, went away in a couple of days.
Replies (6)
March 6, 2016
I too have experienced fat lose from the Fraxel. I have been dealing with the same things you have. The truth needs to known on the effects of lasers and the doctors need to stop using them.
March 7, 2016
Katiekat, I am so sorry about the damage you suffered. I hope the fat loss was limited.
March 6, 2016
I have exactly the same issues as you have noted from ipl damage - treating redness for mild rosecea (something I was so self conscious of...well not as much as the lines, orange peel blah blah that really bothers me now!) my skin is nearly a year out and this time last year I noticed the lines/pores by my smile lines ....now those lines have crept up across my cheeks grrrr!) I have tried led red light therapy (no heat) which helped with the uneven skin tone (I looked bruised, oily and had strange spot like lumps) this therapy helped with all of that and ironically the redness I suffered from is 80% better but is hasn't addressed the lines or orange peel. I've tried all lotions/potions to try and help retain moisture but only one thing seems to help topically and that's omega 3,6,9 capsule that I pierce to put on the skin....good job i live on my own as has a fishy smell so I only put it on before bed but my skin feels the most Moisturised it has, all other creams seem to have a drying effect on already dry skin. I've been to see 5 dermatologists 3 of which suggested that I needed stronger ipl, the other 2 didn't bother to look at my skin they told me its the aging process and I should address my skincare regime (so frustrating won't say what I said to them!) anyway I'm off to see a clinic tomorrow to talk about dermapen treatments with prp as it seems to be the most 'natural' treatment. I've read up on facelifts which I think will help with some of the facial lines but I'm worried the orange peel look would look stretched and worse from a facelift. Sometimes in certain light I think its miraculously gone away and i see 'me' then I catch glimpse in sunlight and just want to hide. So at the moment I'm hoping dermapen/microneedling will at least improve some of my 'issues' and I hope they do for you to.
March 7, 2016
I'm so glad you have had some nice results from the red light therapy and the fishy pills. The dermapen will help with the "orange peel" skin -- which is from dermal damage and possibly also from chronic inflammation/swelling that can be caused by IPL. Of course you know that microneedling is NOT a quick fix, like some people seem to assume; you have to do it regularly and faithfully for a long period of time.
An old-style facelift would give your skin a pulled-back, "windblown" look that would definitely exacerbate the appearance of the orange peel because the underlying tissues have to be lifted as well. See my Q&A on facelifts, if you like -- a whole bunch of PS's weighed in.
An old-style facelift would give your skin a pulled-back, "windblown" look that would definitely exacerbate the appearance of the orange peel because the underlying tissues have to be lifted as well. See my Q&A on facelifts, if you like -- a whole bunch of PS's weighed in.
January 31, 2018
I thought you could not dermaroller with rosacea. I have a mild case with a few broken capillaries in my cheeks and on my chin. I really wanted to do this but am afraid to after reading that you shouldn't with rosacea. I've actually never been diagnosed. I have no pimples just broken capillaries. Can you offer me any input on how this is working for you. Do you also have the tiny capillaries?
UPDATED FROM Peyton2012
19 days post
New pix and changes in post-IPL skin-care regimen
Peyton2012March 15, 2016
Here are photos taken 3/11/16 and 3/14/16 in my bathroom mirror -- aka "the Mirror of Dorian Gray" because it highlights so many of the flaws on my face. Note: I have got a bit of coconut oil on in these pix, so the problems you see are actually *worse.*
Please also note:
1) enlargement and spreading of visible pores from my T-zone;
2) shiny skin -- not depicted due to need for certain types of natural lighting to see it;
3) round and triangular indentations on the right side of my chin; and, worst of all,
4) weird eye-to-jaw wrinkles that not even my mother -- who is almost 77 years old and has blithely abused her skin for many decades -- has on her cheeks.
Recently, I rolled over two small pimples on my chin with my .50mm and they joined forces against me and became one big pimple. So that was not a good idea. But! Microneedling the IPL-treated rosacea areas on my nose and my chin with my .25mm and my .50mm, respectively, has not made the rosacea any worse -- contrary to popular advice. I will keep on needling those areas since my rosacea is mild and not pustular and I'm curious to see what happens to the rosacea over time. Of course, I'll stop that if anything bad happens.
Skin-care regimen changes:
Have replaced the olive oil I was using as a daily moisturizer with coconut oil
Have started applying .025% Tretinoin nightly, following with more coconut oil
Not buying any more HA pills because Neocell Collagen capsules already have HA
Considering buying .75mm one-row roller to tackle specific wrinkles on forehead
More information available in my 6-month review of IPL titled "IPL Fat Loss Terror." Thanks!
Please also note:
1) enlargement and spreading of visible pores from my T-zone;
2) shiny skin -- not depicted due to need for certain types of natural lighting to see it;
3) round and triangular indentations on the right side of my chin; and, worst of all,
4) weird eye-to-jaw wrinkles that not even my mother -- who is almost 77 years old and has blithely abused her skin for many decades -- has on her cheeks.
Recently, I rolled over two small pimples on my chin with my .50mm and they joined forces against me and became one big pimple. So that was not a good idea. But! Microneedling the IPL-treated rosacea areas on my nose and my chin with my .25mm and my .50mm, respectively, has not made the rosacea any worse -- contrary to popular advice. I will keep on needling those areas since my rosacea is mild and not pustular and I'm curious to see what happens to the rosacea over time. Of course, I'll stop that if anything bad happens.
Skin-care regimen changes:
Have replaced the olive oil I was using as a daily moisturizer with coconut oil
Have started applying .025% Tretinoin nightly, following with more coconut oil
Not buying any more HA pills because Neocell Collagen capsules already have HA
Considering buying .75mm one-row roller to tackle specific wrinkles on forehead
More information available in my 6-month review of IPL titled "IPL Fat Loss Terror." Thanks!
Replies (16)
March 15, 2016
Thanks for the updates, I am a big fan of coconut oil, it's very soothing and will help keep your skin moist while using Retin-A. I am also using .025%, another really awesome cream I am using to keep irritation and redness under control is called: Cicabio by BIODERM, it's really lightweight and absorbs super quick. Good luck, keep us posted. ☺
March 16, 2016
The Retin-A may make your Rosocea a bit more pronounced. My dermatologist said to use at least SPF 30 preferably higher, "even if you are just walking to the mailbox and back on a cloudy day".
March 17, 2016
I dread the sun and always wear SPF 70 and a hat, regardless of the weather. *Before* the IPL fiasco, this strategy resulted in my being mistaken for up to 20 years younger. On "good" days, I could get carded for appearing to be under 30. And men in their twenties have asked me out, thinking I was early to mid-thirties.
Oh, and I do not put the Tretinoin on the rosacea areas, which are limited to my nose and chin.
Oh, and I do not put the Tretinoin on the rosacea areas, which are limited to my nose and chin.
October 8, 2016
I still do use it even over the rosacea areas. I also use SPF 70 from Nuetrogena. It's actually on of my favorites after a bit of hyaluronic acid for moisture, vitamins C and E. I too get mistaken for much younger and I credit mostly years sun block before it was popular. I also have a moisturizer with vitamin k that seems to help a bit....
one of these days I'll try a yellow laser or V-Beam
one of these days I'll try a yellow laser or V-Beam
October 8, 2016
Be careful with all lasers, including those purporting to be "gentle." I would get v-beam or PDL for my rosacea only if the doctor were willing to cover up all my non-rosacea areas with a protective sheet or similar to prevent "laser splash."
October 8, 2016
I've never heard of "laser splash" and when I tried to look it up on Google nothing popped up except for video games. I found the concept odd as lasers are known for their coherence.... that's why we have laser pointers. Eye shields yes, one errant hit to a retina would be very bad. Do you have a link or site?
October 9, 2016
It's more commonly known as "laser spatter" or "laser splatter." It's when a laser device affects adjacent structures despite claims by manufacturers that it cannot. IPL can do the same thing, hence all the damage I got on areas that were never touched by the practitioner.
September 2, 2016
I've always been advised to inquire at a physician's office and to pursue treatment there - not at home.
September 2, 2016
I would go to a doctor's office for microneedling if I decided to go longer than 1.0mm. One of my dermatologists does needling in her fancy K Street suite, but she charges a mint and she flatly denies that IPL can damage skin. For those and other reasons I am seriously considering "firing" her.
October 7, 2016
I'd suggest stop using coconut and olive oil on the face. Both are very heavy and can cause clogging. Why not try marula oil which is lighter in texture and won't clog pores. this company makes exceptional products. http://www.sheaterraorganics.com/
Marula has better results than argan oil
Marula has better results than argan oil
October 7, 2016
I had some evening primrose oil from Mountain rose herbs that was a year old and wanted to use it up as a base oil for facial cupping. I tried it last night and was amazed at how much it helped with vertical wrinkles on the left side of my face (the side exposed to the sun when I've been driving in Hawaii and now San Diego) I'm going to try it again today and use a egg white mask on top of it mixed with powdered fenegreek. Would you like me to let you know the results?
I am going to try facial micro-needling using 0.50 needles next week. My friend is an acupuncturist and has done it for herself in the past.
I am going to try facial micro-needling using 0.50 needles next week. My friend is an acupuncturist and has done it for herself in the past.
October 7, 2016
Have you accounted for temporary swelling? This can last from hours to months and can make skin look better than it actually is after a treatment. Good luck with needling!
October 7, 2016
I have fairly thick skin so I don't think it will be a problem, similar to my acupuncturist's. She did needling on herself to get rid of scar on her face.
October 8, 2016
No, I mean temporary swelling/plumping from the oil and the cupping that may have made the vertical wrinkles look better for a while.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you find support in the community.
Thanks for your feedback Peyton2012, I like your suggestion and I have passed it along for review. ☺