POSTED UNDER Facelift Reviews
Poor results from the Biltmore lift
UPDATED FROM OliviaP12
7 months post
7.5 months after - neck bands are coming back
OliviaP12December 30, 2017
$6,400
Well major bummer. I was hoping that my tight neck would hold even though the facelift didn’t work- but while giving myself a facial today (hence the pink skin in the photo) I i caught sight of my neck and was super dissapointed to see the neck bands are coming back. When I pinch the loose skin up by my ears they disappear again so not sure if that means my skin wasn’t tightened enough during surgery or what.
It just goes to show “final” results take a while to show. :-(
It just goes to show “final” results take a while to show. :-(
OliviaP12's provider
UPDATED FROM OliviaP12
7 months post
Plastic Surgeon who is in the top 1% of doctors in the U.S. - Dr. Achih Chen
OliviaP12December 27, 2017
Ladies for those of you still looking for the perfect doctor, someone I know found this doctor who has awesome credentials, very personalized and comprehensive total face rejuvenation.Yes it would still mean travel to the south, but he is in the top 1% of doctors in the United States, state of the art facility and a very impressive set of awards, credentials and reviews on Healthgrades etc. So if you are considering traveling for surgery, this doctor should definitely be a consideration!
Replies (5)
December 27, 2017
I know someone who just had surgery with him, but it was not a face lift. She heard great things about him. Did the person you know have a face lift with him?
December 27, 2017
The person I know is considering him for a facelift and shared the website with me. I am very impressed - I wish I had found out about him when I was looking earlier this year. What surgery did your friend have? Eyes?
December 27, 2017
Olivia, thanks for posting this. There are a LOT of outstanding surgeons that have no presence on RS. Many great surgeons in the LV area are not on here, which I used to think was weird, but it doesn’t really reflect on their credentials, experience or results one way or the other. You can get a lot of great referrals from word of mouth, if folks are willing to share. I definitely think staying close to home is preferable if you can, but there are a lot of outstanding surgeons if you do your research. Best regards!
December 27, 2017
I hate to say this but in the majority of cases the best plastic surgeons do not have the time to spend hours on Realself answering questions or pimping out "patients" to leave reviews. I have to laugh when I see these "so called" "famous busy" doctors with up to 1,000 questions answered on Realself. What a joke. Give me a doctor anytime with a great word of mouth reputation without any internet presence.
December 27, 2017
Suitsmefine, I don't believe the very successful surgeons have any need to advertise here so yes, there are some really great ones that people won't even know about if this site is their only source of information. I like looking people up on Healthgrades because that site not only has reviews, but the doctor's credentials, specialties, board certifications, malpractice, education, awards, and the number of years the doctor has been in practice.
December 27, 2017
Lostbeauty - very good point. I think its reasonable to see questions answered when someone is building their practice - I know a 38 yr old PS who spends alot of his time on here answering questions because he needs the business! But its a bit different if someone has been in business for 15-20 years and still has the time or the desire to be on this site constantly for any reason. This site should be only one of many different sources of information gathering when people are deciding on a procedure or a doctor.
December 27, 2017
Be careful Heathgrades does not give you the entire picture of lawsuits. Many times you have to register and sometimes pay a small fee with the county courthouse online site where the doctor practices. Amazing what you find. Also putting the doctors name in Google with the word malpractice will bring up cases.
December 27, 2017
Will say that the dr who botched me also had hundreds of rave reviews, state of the art facility, and made sure any negative review on any site was removed and even threatened me with legal action. They all look like great dr's until you have a problem and than you see the nasty come out in them.
December 27, 2017
That is really the test of good service - anyone will have a handful of people that do not have good results from surgery, but its how those specific cases are handled that either reflects upon the doctor well or poorly. Working in a medspa myself we have had a few incidences of adverse results with clients but the owner of our spa bends over backwards to correct the problem completely at her own expense. (It can cost thousands to remedy a burn or scarring.) This is why I really don't get why many of us find ourselves in this situation. I can't speak for everyone but I believe most people who have been botched or don't have good results aren't necessarily looking for a refund; they are looking for the doctor to help cover the cost of whatever it takes to fix the problem to their satisfaction.
December 27, 2017
I asked him for my money back and he said no - I really need that money in order to be able to have a correction elsewhere as I would never let him touch me again. He is almost impossible for a malpractice suit as I did work for a malpractice insurance co so I know this to be true. I also contacted my lawyer and several others who all said the same thing - basically you need to either be dead or prove that what was done was below normal standards and they will only take cases that bring in hundreds of thousands not a case with a bad result
December 27, 2017
Roses, most surgeons are covered by an umbrella insurance plan that they are able to tap into when the surgery does not end as planned. So, even if a surgeon isn't offering the option of a refund, he/she could still help take care of the patient's costs to fix the problem if they wanted to. Refunds are great, but I think most people would be satisfied if they at least got some financial help rather than the cold shoulder.
December 28, 2017
i know nothing about law, but I have wondered for a while; how can they threaten you with legal action? They might threaten, but that means they go to the trouble of bringing you to court. If you know you're in the right, let them threaten. You have a right to post an honest review and if there is evidence, I bet they DO NOT want others to find out. I realize they might have good lawyers, but never discount the power of publicity. If you are in the right, let the threaten!
December 28, 2017
Nadia, some people have received threats of "libel" or "defamation" for posting negative reviews. Yes there are consumer protection laws (especially pertaining to online reviews), but lots of women get scared the moment someone mentions being sued. Understandably. From what I've read its not libel if the person is speaking the truth about their experience, and the doctor has to prove that they have been "damaged" financially by the review; but if the person reviewing has also been "damaged" financially by the procedure then it can become a bit of a pissing contest. It seems neither party will gain much through lawsuit other than wasting money on legal fees. Its just too bad that with all of the millions being made by the plastic surgeons, some are not willing to help the handful of people who have poor results to avoid all negative feedback and know that they are improving the lives of each and every person they work on
December 28, 2017
Sent me a lawyer letter and threatened that I will have to pay their legal fees as well. Yes I have my botched results but my lawyer said I may very well have been botched but very hard to prove and financially don't want to run the risk. They know this. I felt some red flags beforehand and should have gone with my gut
December 28, 2017
Roses, that’s just really crazy that your surgeon would threaten you rather than make things right. So ridiculous. Thank you for sharing your experience with the community. We are each entitled to share our unique experiences .
December 29, 2017
I had left him months before I posted anything and clearly I would never allow him to touch me again and by the way I believe the operative report he gave me was not truthful. I have been told by others that my results would have been different if he did what was stated in operative report, and what he clearly left out
December 28, 2017
To be clear - you're recommending (1) traveling for surgery; (2) to a doctor who has not treated you; (3) and has not even treated one of your acquaintances. One person on this thread had a "facial peel" by him, but not surgery. After all your warnings, I am honestly confounded by this recommendation.
December 28, 2017
Lisa, what I'm recommending is that people look for doctors outside of this website. There are some amazing and well qualified doctors that people are passing over just because the doctor isn't paying to advertise here. I personally am not into travel, but there are women who may live close enough to this doctor to drive and/or feel that they don't have a qualified doctor in their area to consider. My blog has been about encouraging people to do more research and not make a choice based solely on reviews featured on this one paid site. Its not about promoting one doctor specifically. Would it make you feel better if I throw up a few others names of people I've found for people to consider? I would be happy to do that as I've found several. This one just happened to be close in the south where it appears most of these women are traveling.
December 28, 2017
I think recommending names of doctors that you have no personal experience with is not helpful and could even be potentially harmful. I agree wholeheartedly that there are a lot of good surgeons and that potential patients should do their OWN research beyond RS including looking on other websites and speaking with friends and acquaintances who have had positive results. Ladies, other "review" sites are healthgrades, vitals and ratemds - very easy to find on Google. Again, these sites offer subjective reviews and you should also use your own good judgment by dealing directly with the doctor and getting input from past patients if at all possible. Also, check the credentials of the doctor to make sure he or she is a specialist. There is a straightfoward article on docshop that gives some basic information about how to find a facial plastic surgeon including questions to ask. Here's an exerpt about credentials: In the United States, all qualified plastic surgeons will have been certified by the American Board of Plastic Surgery. Those designated "facial plastic surgeons" have undergone secondary, specialized training and are certified by the American Board of Facial Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery. . .
December 28, 2017
Lisa507.....all of the reviews on any website, referrals, education, certifications and reputation mean nothing if you are the patient things went wrong on. Olivia is simply opening up a discussion of the world of plastic surgery.
December 28, 2017
Good points Lisa - those are all good sites to include in research! I do understand where you are coming from, but I have no idea how mentioning a plastic surgeon on a plastic surgery website could be potentially harmful. And to be clear, I didn't recommend the doctor - I said this doctor was someone worth considering. Big difference. Kind of like I've never driven an Audi R8, but can say without a doubt its worth considering if someone is in the market to purchase a luxury sports car.
December 28, 2017
By recommending a specific name? To quote: " . . . this doctor who has awesome credentials, very personalized and comprehensive total face rejuvenation.Yes it would still mean travel to the south, but he is in the top 1% of doctors in the United States, state of the art facility and a very impressive set of awards, credentials and reviews . . . " Sounds like an endorsement to me by someone who hasn't received treatment from this doctor and doesn't even know anyone who has had treament by this doctor. Just saying - seems like a blind recommendation which is the absolute opposite to everything that has been advocated here. Now I remember why I decided to quit following this particular review. It's a contradictory rabbit hole. Ladies - do your OWN research.
December 28, 2017
December 28, 2017
December 28, 2017
P.S. I am NOT a patient of Dr. Harley so I just want to say to anyone reading this - my post is not meant to steer you to Dr. Harley but to encourage you to do your own research, talk to real patients, and use your own good judgment. Ok - I really am done now. LOL Here's wishing you all safe, sound and successful procedures, whatever they may be!
December 28, 2017
Well miss Lisa your post sounds very biased for Harley, so I would wager you have an upcoming surgery scheduled with him or are considering him for surgery, otherwise why the pressing need to promote his brand? As far as the mutual release for Dr.Chen pfffft - 90% of the doctors out there use them. That is nothing new and not something only used by plastic surgeons. I will also say that my review of Dr. Harley on Google was mysteriously removed - and only the business owner can request Google to remove reviews. So really all doctors have a certain control over their public image. Healthgrades shows Dr Chen has (90) 5 star reviews and Dr. Harley has (4) 5 star reviews so information will vary depending on where you look. As far as the pictures and the Q&A from Harley's patients yes there certainly is alot of it with the Harley Hunnies! The pictures posted are seldom more than 2 months post surgery and most of the comments are just women telling each other how beautiful they look, where they stayed in Asheville, which nurse they used etc. I don't find that sort of information useful, but that's me.
December 28, 2017
That is very interesting. Many years ago lots and lots of surgeons were using those gag orders. A company called medical justice promoted them to plastic surgeons. As it turned out they did not hold up in court, so the doctors who continue to require them probably just use them as a psychological manipulation. I would never go to a doctor who requires you to sign one even though they will not hold up in court. Also many years ago, a review site called "rate mds" had a wall of shame where an ongoing list of plastic surgeons requiring them were up on their site. LOL.
December 29, 2017
NYC comments removed above as we speak!! Haha, oh well you win some you lose some right? Crickets....yes....because its only fun to post pictures when you look pretty, not so fun when your face returns to normal and you can't hide the disappointment in your eyes, no matter what filter you use on your selfie.
December 29, 2017
Couldn't agree more Lisa507. It goes against everything that was said before about choosing a surgeon.
December 29, 2017
I agree NYClife1 that many do not post after the initial high. Could be from disappointment or could be from wanting to move on & focusing on other things. But this happens regardless of Dr. or technique. I think it's important regardless of which surgeon you pick that you have realistic expectations and of course know that any surgery does not fill in lines - it takes away skin/fat though & if that's what's causing the lines to be more pronounced - as it was with me, then maybe when the swelling is gone, the lines are reduced enough that the person is happy with the result, without filler.
December 29, 2017
CanLynn as I said before, travel is not for me personally but there are many women on here that for one reason or another don't want to use local surgeons. My preference is still to stay local (or within a 4 hour driving distance) but for those that are going to be traveling its nice to be able to do some comparison shopping! I chose that one Dr. to illustrate because for the same price or less on what I spent for my debaucle, I could have had a full facelift. As far as surgery not filling in lines - I had none before surgery. Expecting your face to at least not look worse than it did before surgery is not an unrealistic expectation.
December 29, 2017
I read a page on Dr. David B. Wreath's (Knoxville) website that discusses both the pros and cons of traveling for surgery....when it is and when it's not appropriate. He still says doing surgery locally is the best, but that traveling can work for some people when lots of time is spent in consult and discussion BEFORE the surgery and that the person has a very good post surgery follow up plan. This doctor obviously sees some out of town patients, but devotes a page on his site to discussing the risks before that person arrives for surgery. He is saying the same thing as I've been trying to say (and perhaps not doing a good job of it!) : Choose a surgeon close to you if you can; if that is not possible then traveling for surgery is an option, but proceed with caution.
December 30, 2017
Actually general plastic surgeons have more training and education than facial plastic surgeons. I was under the impression that I would be better off going to a facial surgeon and boy was I wrong. A year and a half I am still suffering in pain and I look terrible
December 30, 2017
I'm so sorry to hear that you had problems. The PS that I was referring to was a facial PS but almost all his reviews were for rhinoplasties. Sites are only as good as the people posting but at least we can post negative or positive reviews and comments here
December 31, 2017
Rate mds will also remove negative comments posted about a doctor, The only site I found that does not is healthgrades.
January 1, 2018
I hadn't heard of doctor's scorecard. ratemds I did check out & was not aware that negative reviews could be removed. I checked out my GP & saw a couple negative reviews - Maybe certain drs. don't care & just let it go. Regardless I wish here & elsewhere that you could post what you want & then the Drs would chime in and tell their story & have an open dialogue. That's what I thought would happen with this site originally - I've seen drs.' staff chime in before
January 1, 2018
I doubt that rate md removes negative comments because I see them all the time.
December 30, 2017
Lisa507- CONTRADICTORY RABBIT HOLE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT CanLynn-Could not agree with you more.
December 30, 2017
Happyplace3 please try to contribute rather than troll. All voices are beneficial but pejorative talk only diminishes the value of your opinion. This blog is only contradictory for people who aren't able to keep up with the conversation. As Juliana3 says, if people can't throw out the names of interesting surgeons to consider, what are we doing here?
UPDATED FROM OliviaP12
7 months post
Before and Afters
OliviaP12December 17, 2017
I am feeling much less self conscious about my face now that I've been able to resolve some of the post surgery effects, so I'm posting pics for the people who have been following and for all of you who continue to message me for information. For the sake of privacy I'm not going to keep these up indefinitely - so when they disappear know that they are being removed for privacy nothing else.
Photo 1:
Left side is me 2 weeks before surgery.
Right side is me 4 months after surgery. I lost a large amount of volume in my face- malar fat pads flattened, cheeks sunken in, and bags developed under my eyes (notice there are no bags under the eyes before surgery). My face looked very wonky like it had been squished and whatever filler was remaining didn't seem to be sitting where it had originally been placed. I felt like I aged 10 years.
Photo 2:
Me at almost 7 months post surgery after two months of weekly vitrase injections under my eyes to dissolve the bags plus multiple syringes of new filler to the lower face. My nurse injector is an artist and was able to fill in the hollows, lift the soft jawline and put me back together again :-) However, it came at a cost - $5000, and that included my professional discount! For anyone else it would have been closer to $8100. The vitrase was also discounted, it normally costs $150 per injection, so that would have been another $1200 to the average patient. Tack all of that onto what I already spent for the surgery itself and you can see just how expensive all of this truly is.
Here's what bothers me the most. If I had not been in the position to spend $5000 for filler after I just spent $10,000 for surgery (facelift + travel), then I would be stuck looking like that "after" photo with the bags and sunken face. That is not right. No one expects perfection, but looking older or worse than when you started is an unacceptable outcome. Having to spend the same or more than what you spent on your facelift to re-lift your face is shameful. SMH
Photo 1:
Left side is me 2 weeks before surgery.
Right side is me 4 months after surgery. I lost a large amount of volume in my face- malar fat pads flattened, cheeks sunken in, and bags developed under my eyes (notice there are no bags under the eyes before surgery). My face looked very wonky like it had been squished and whatever filler was remaining didn't seem to be sitting where it had originally been placed. I felt like I aged 10 years.
Photo 2:
Me at almost 7 months post surgery after two months of weekly vitrase injections under my eyes to dissolve the bags plus multiple syringes of new filler to the lower face. My nurse injector is an artist and was able to fill in the hollows, lift the soft jawline and put me back together again :-) However, it came at a cost - $5000, and that included my professional discount! For anyone else it would have been closer to $8100. The vitrase was also discounted, it normally costs $150 per injection, so that would have been another $1200 to the average patient. Tack all of that onto what I already spent for the surgery itself and you can see just how expensive all of this truly is.
Here's what bothers me the most. If I had not been in the position to spend $5000 for filler after I just spent $10,000 for surgery (facelift + travel), then I would be stuck looking like that "after" photo with the bags and sunken face. That is not right. No one expects perfection, but looking older or worse than when you started is an unacceptable outcome. Having to spend the same or more than what you spent on your facelift to re-lift your face is shameful. SMH
Replies (5)
December 17, 2017
Hi Oliva, Did you lose weight? That is so strange that the procedure would suck so much volume out of your face. Your cheekbones looked very prominent, the look some like to achieve. Sorry you had to go through so much.
December 18, 2017
Heck no I didn't lose weight! Everyone likes high cheekbones, but no one wants to look like Skeletor with a droopy mouth and bags under the eyes. Thank god for my nurse injector.
December 18, 2017
Hi Olivia,
Wow...end result is beautiful!
Your plastic surgery nightmare reads like a horror story.
Seeing as your great result is temporary filler, might you consider fat grafting once this depletes? I'm experiencing more mileage, plus the benefit of improved skin smoothness/texture from the stem cells. Much less expensive in the long run, too!
Wow...end result is beautiful!
Your plastic surgery nightmare reads like a horror story.
Seeing as your great result is temporary filler, might you consider fat grafting once this depletes? I'm experiencing more mileage, plus the benefit of improved skin smoothness/texture from the stem cells. Much less expensive in the long run, too!
December 18, 2017
Salon owner I have considered fat grafting but lots of doctors now don't seem to favor using it. I do plan to do some PRP stem cell injections with the future filler to help it last longer.
January 2, 2018
SalonOwner - I've followed your comments and noticed that you too were happy in the early stages of your facelift (4 months ago) but have seen some backslide since. I have been looking through the reviews of the "hundreds" of Harley patients who posted good things right after surgery but it is very hard to find more than a handful who will post updates after two months - even when people are asking them if they are still happy. Please keep me posted with the results of your fat grafting and overall lift longevity.
December 18, 2017
I’m sorry OliviaP12 what an awful ordeal that was unnecessary for you have to go through. Why does your nose look different in 4 mth after pic? is it just lighting?Your injector nurse did a fantastic job! You look great!
December 18, 2017
Might be a little bit of swelling was still present in my face at month 4. My sinuses were heavily impacted by all of this might have been some swelling in the nose and sinus that day who knows. Or just a slightly different angle, light , etc. I haven't done anything to my nose with surgery or with filler as I've always been happy with my nose. :-)
December 18, 2017
Wow thank you for sharing these Olivia!!! I see exactly what you have been referring to!! I’m sorry that you had to go through this... However, in the most recent pic after fillers, you do look beautiful!!
December 18, 2017
Thanks Tabitha. Yes the fillers have always done great things for me - if I would have known what would happen with surgery I would have just stayed with the fillers. The $10K I spent would have helped pay for alot of filler!
Replies (4)