Permanent eyeliner keeps flaking off

  • 337
  • Netherlands
  • 3 years ago

Hi all, really glad I found this forum...   I got my permanent eyeliner done 5 times in the last 8 months (top and bottom).... Each time the jet-black flakes off after some 3-4 days leaving a barely visible segmented grey line.... Very frustrating !! My technician has over 15 years experience in PMU and I have seen some of her other customers (good job) - she says she never saw anything like my skin....   I keep to all the before and after care instructions - yet each time after some 3-4 days off it goes... Is this because the pigment is not deep enough ?   I am a Ukranian genotype with light yellow-based skin, have no allergies and to my impression my skin is quite thick (I never saw a single drop of blood in all the sessions).   Has anyone here experienced anything similar and what was the solution ?   Thanks :)

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Water retention and hyperactive immune systems (common in alopecia clients) can cause more color loss. But most often, it's not the client's skin rejecting the color. It's technician error. Correct depth of implantation and not overworking the skin are two important points already discussed. But there are other important factors which haven't been discussed here: Is the technician keeping the skin stretched during the procedure, or opposing it, to stablilize it while working? If not, the needle may be bouncing off and not penetrating properly. Is she using a long, short, or medium taper needle, and is that needle a regular tattoo needle (#12 sharp), a finer needle or a very fine "bug pin"? The taper of the needle and the diameter of the needle affect how much color goes in with each implantation. Finer needles with longer taper go in easier, but put in less color per implant; so the tech would have to work slower to get the same result. Too many needles in a group at low power may cause the needle to bounce away from the skin as well. EMLA was the first anesthetic to work on unbroken skin allowed in the U.S. and is still the best known. But it's not a great product for us. It is too high a pH to use safely around the eyes and its use around the eyes is the #1 cause of insurance claims for injury from permanent makeup in the U.S.. It also doesn't contain epinephrine, which is important for keeping swelling down during the procedure. I don't know if UK people can use our U.S. topicals which combine lidocaine, epinephrine, and often tetracaine during the procedure, but they are at a great disadvantage if they cannot. When the skin gets too swollen, it stops retaining new color. In that case, the tech should know to use cold packs frequently during the procedure to diminish blood flow and reduce swelling. I also use low level laser red light therapy after all my procedures (and sometimes during), which helps enormously to reduce swelling and discomfort. That leads to better color retention as well. Finally, there's the aftercare issue. If you use Bacitracin and the client is allergic to it, she will swell a lot and lose color. All petrolatum aftercare is old technology, even though its universally used. Some clients are sensitive to petrolatum as well. So I'm working on a new aftercare product with natural oils and hyaluronic acid to really rehydrate the skin and create a better healing environment. I do think synthetic organic pigments last longer than iron oxide pigments, but all colors will fade from body chemistry, sun exposure, and macrophage activity. Results do vary. But clients should expect to touch up there color periodically to maintain the best appearance.
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I haven't seen "skin reject the ink" unless there is scar tissue. Eyeliner doesn't stay: The most common problem is that most people go too deeply in the eyelid or they overwork the skin. So how do you know how deeply to go? Facts 1. A dime is 1.35mm thick. The epidermis may only be .5 to .75mm thick. So when your instructor says to go the depth of a dime it may be too deep for some eyelids. That's why I say to "Stop nickel and diming yourself to death!" 2. When you work with a round needle, the minute you tilt it, like you're writing with a pen or pencil, the needles are going in at different depths. So you're only getting 40-60% of the color into the skin at the proper level. The other needles are going too deep and too shallow and you'll get a blotchy effect, especially in lips. 3. Perfectionists overwork the skin, trying so hard to do a 'perfect job'. But then the skin scabs and color comes out. So stop while you're ahead. This information is directly from Dr. Dixon President of the American Academy of Micropigmentation
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I just had mine done 4 days ago and you can barely see that I had it done! It has all flaked off! My tech said that 1 eye did not want to accept the ink--- should I go back for a touch up? Or is it a waste of time and money
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I am PM technician, and many year ago this happened but now there are other ink without iron oxide that work just great I use the gel pigments it's more concentrated and on light skin I use dark brown and yes it dose flake but it should still leave the line another thing the needle I use is number 1 .
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Biotouch ink has iron oxide in it. I would avoid those as they change colors in fading.
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Hi I am a 20 yr experinced pracitioner. just to clarify your comment: Iron oxide pigment has nothing to do with the tattoo changing colors. That means the practitioner did not either chose the right primary color base to your skin color or nationality. Also many other factors have a lot to do with just color fading: practicing method, needles, Pigment brand, etc... Hope this helps
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Hey I got my permanent eyeliner on top 3 days ago one of my eyes got really swollen and it's redly bruised more then the other and I'm guessing because it is swollen the ink on that one looks thicker and a little differently shaped then the other is this normal for it to look a little different then the other? If so when should my eyes look better. I get a free touch up in a month and she's one of the best in Canada.
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Yes, if that eye is more swollen you will see more liner. Taking Benadryl does help to a certain extent. Your Tech should also advise you that if you are using any type of lash enhancement products that will cause swelling. Those products are stimulating blood flow in the area to promote lash growth. If you have any other questions feel free to personally contact me at afaceforever@yahoo.com.
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Hi I had my first attempt done 3 weeks ago the technician said that my skin wouldn't break so she kept try with little success she said that because I took my allergy pills she wasn't able to get the skin to break so she had me go back in a few days..I ended up going back and had a new technician work on my eyeliner it went well ..I flew back home since I was on vacation ( both technician have done work on family members and they also work in my aunts salon in Puerto Rico..with in a few days the eyeliner peel off..little by little it's dark around the area but as I was my face it bleeds and off it comes ...any suggestions..
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Yes I have had it done 4 times, the first time the reaction to the local made it had for the tech.to finish, thank god her medical doctor was an eye doctor who was able to inject me,but in 6 months it was almost gone. I had a touch up and then again redone 1 year later. My most recent, 5 months ago was great for 2 weeks but since then it has faded... This was a different tech and I told her what happened so she said she would use a stronger more permanent ink. Well it's only bearly visible and it's pale grey now I'm back to pencil.Bummer and a waste of money

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had it done a second time after about 8 weeks. turned out really good. thank you for all the responses.....
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Day 3 and my black eyeliner is staring to come off in scabs, leaving blank areas. I'm 51, fairly light skinned, had a leg tattoo many years ago that didn't do this. I don't remember seeing any blood, but my lids were quite red and somewhat puffy until the following evening. I also had pain issues despite her using a numbing cream. I forced myself to continue, but I was embarrassed at how often I whined. I'll try to find out what ink (US) she used in case someeone could make a suggestion. Thanks
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This is the same as what's happening to me, day 4. Exactly the same. I had brown/black. Hows yours now?

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so i still want to know if regular tattoo ink will work?

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I see this is a common problem to all of us... By the way - I have to tell you all that the info I share here is relying on my own experience with PMU, I'm not a beautician or anything (I'm a physicist actually so my experience with pigmented polymers comes from industrial processes...) but some things I found out experimentally :)

I don't know where you live, I only know the EU regulations on this subject - all the inks are regulated and I don't know how many types are you here to choose from. My technician used the same ink and added some kind of primer she received from a tattooist (also regulated in the EU). The big difference in my case was needle length and water retention in the body....

I went for my last "facial maintenance" on my eyebrows a week back, the needle was on max and drew blood - some scabs are still there - but results are gooooood :)

If you try something else and get positive results - please do post here, loads of us would benefit from it !!
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So, I am having the same problem. I have gone twice and each time my top and bottom eyeliner has healed and flaked off almost completly. Does anyone know the name of the "best" ink that can be used for permanent eyeliner? And I'm going to tell whoever I go to next to try to go deeper I guess...
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Had my eyeliner done a week ago.one eye is okay. The other looks like this. - - - spaces. Not at all the same as the other eye. And the line isn't as long. Looks bad.
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Hi Patty,

Was the ok eye done first, and afterwards the one with the broken line ? If so, it may be related to the body's response - keep in mind the body see this treatment as an injury, and your systems just kick-in to repair...

You can always go back again to add (which is easier than removing) :)
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yes the good eye was done first. but it has a small defect in the line. it is the best one. I could live with that one.
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PS - if my skin was rejecting the ink, I would expect inflammation, or other signs of a response by the immune system - I did not see anything like that...
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Here is what I learned so far : Within the EU the ink types are regulated, so not too many options that would go wrong. The body experiences the treatment as an injury and of course the repair system kicks into action. My skin is apparently thicker than average.

I did several things to minimize the ink-loss : first of all, make sure you have your PMU session when you are not retaining body-fluids : not just before your period or ovulation, do not drink alcohol for at least 24 hours prior to PMU, minimize salt intake 48 hours prior. Do not exfoliate or rub the skin down prior to PMU as this increases the blood flow to the area and increases fluid pressure.

To minimize body-response I also divided the PMU to a larger number of smaller sessions, and asked the technician to set the needle length to max. Things are much better now :)

I end up going for a short session about 1ce a month. I will add info here as I learn more ;)
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Hi all

My skin does the same as 337's. The only difference is that I have gone for my permanent eyeliner and after scabbing off there was absolutely no lines. I got the top and bottom lines done. I've gone back for my touch up session and had to get both lines redone as if they have never been done before. All scabs have come off, but no lines yet. What is wrong? Now I have to go back next week for another session. She used Emla cream for numming the lids, but do not know what the name of the ink is that she uses. I did not have any bleading while getting this done, but she did go quiet deep enough into my skin (she actually focused on that on my last visit). Could you please help?
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Sounds like your skin is rejecting the ink. I would be very surprised if the technician wasn't going deep enough into the skin. Regardless of who you are, the skin is thin in the area around the eyes. The needle only needs to penetrate about 1/16 of an inch to apply ink through the first layer of skin anywhere else on the body and possibly less in the eyelid area.

Obviously the ink is getting in there because you said after flaking there is a gray color left over. You need to find out what brand of ink she is using and try to find a different one or a similar color but it would be hard to find out what part of the ink your body is rejecting. Because tattoo inks/permanent cosmetic inks are not regulated or approved by the FDA it's hard to know exactly what's in them. Some people can't take reds or yellows which may be used to make black ink. There are other factors too like Iron-Oxide which has magnetic properties (metal). Your body will try to push them out as impurities.

Don't keep doing the same thing over and over. I would not blame the technician either. All you can do is try different ink. Sorry for all the details but I'm a tattoo artist presently doing research on inks.

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hello. the brand of the ink is important I use bio touch and they have a black specially for eyeliner is thicker. And yes there are some people with thicker skin and every hard for the pigment to enter and in that case it will hurt more and 2 or 3 visit to the shop but have to go in deeper with a number one needle tell your tech. to try that. and hopefully she is not charging you. good luck
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Lana - my comment about the flying was not meant that way - I meant it must have been far for YOU to travel...

Kate - I'm glad the eyeliner worked out for you (and wish the same for myself). Doing your lips sounds really painful....

My technician is returning from vacation in like 2 weeks - the last eyeliner she did with that catalyst fluid worked out much better, but it still thinner than what I wanted, and is medium-grey rather than the original jet-black the ink was. I'll also ask her the exact brand of ink she used.

good weekend all :)
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