Messed up permanent make up

Hi, Yesterday I was a model for my friend. Although she did a professional job. I do not wear muh mke-up and a a result I am uncomfortable about going out in public. I couldnot manage to have another tattoo on my eyelids or my lips to rectify them. Is ther any way I can asist the fading process in a more natural, cheaper way (as I can't afford anything high cost). Any ideas will be most greatfully accepted....I am still awake as I can't stop thinking about it. My partner says that when he first looked at me he thought I look like a clown as he prefers the natural look and I am used to wearing eye liner (the bottom lid is the most prominent) and my lips are also an obvious look. Please, please, please, can anyone help? I live in the North West, can anyone suggest anything. Mny thanks

I am a Nurse and permanent make up artist. I live in North Idaho. Where are you? you could have the eyeliner redown in a soft color, then when it faades would look light . i would be glad to help yu depending wehre you are..you can email me at {edited} susie Editor note: You must join RealSelf in order to be contacted privately. This requires free registration for an account. When registering you must opt-in to receiving private contacts (a check box).

Q-Switched Ruby laser has very little affect on iron oxides (source: Dr. Roy Geronomous) True 'organic' such as saffron, marigold petals, and caramel don't need laser to be removed as it will remove itself in time. Chemical organics do not do well with Q-Switched lasers but the Yags on the market are doing a much better job as long as there is no titanium dioxide (white) in the pigment formulation.

the pigment i had contains high level of black iron oxide ( 71% ) iron oxide red ( 22 % ) iron oxide yellow 10% and titanium oxide ( 38% ) the piment has blued in places due to the high levels of black..the brown has faded a lot...ill be getting a test patch done on a small area with the yag and possibly the ruby laser..not sure yet but the clinic has both...the pigments are by pharma pigments ( nouveau contour )...is there a chance it will not respond to laser?

Storm, could you reply to this and reiterate your situation? I can't seem to find the details of your PMU prodecure. I'm assuming by the presence of red and yellow that we are talking about eyebrows, but the 'high levels of black' have me confused. Thank you, Liza Sims, CPCP

hiya yes it is the eyebrows they wre initially done dark brown..the scab came off revealing a bluing of the pigment..the brown faded a lot of the next month or so..and the blue in parts was more pronounced..i tried mild abrasion with a pumice..and faded it slightly..then had them tattoed with hyrogen peroxide..again faded slightly..but now ive opted for laser..i have explained to the clinic about the titanium oxide and iron oxide and they said a test patch was advisable.. i have heard conflicting stories about pigments and their reaction to laser..im lead to beleive that most permanant makeup pigments have iron ixide in them as with the usual tattoo pigments..and also ordinary tattoo pigments have some levels of titanium oxide in them and they are removed reasonably ok with laser..ill take pot luck...theres no other option than to to laser...i just hope it will fade to a point where i can get them redon...luckily now the blue areas have toned down a bit..not as intense as it was..when the scabs first came off it was intense blue on the tail and bit towards the nose..any pigment containing black should never be used as far as im concerned..i had said to the permanent makeup artist that my skin tends to pull a lot of blue...i really did try to avoid that happning..she obviously did not understand what was in the pigments..i reserched the pigments and found what colours wer in them..expresso and masala..both had red and yellow and black...probably the worst combination for laser..all i know is i cant continue feeling disfigured..when intially i needed a boost..something to make me feel better in myself after hubby died..but instead i live a night mare of disfigurement and greif...pushed me to the max shall we say..right now i need hope...every day im reminded of my stupid mistake..and how angry i feel for paying such a high price for just wanting to give myself a boost...feel so stupid..and i feel ive changed inside..pity these technitions fail to understand what their botched up artwork can do to a person..made my life more of a living hell than before...maybe extra training in how it can affect someone should be included in these courses..a better level of understanding of what it is like to be disfigured..ive faced this alone..ihavent the guts to tell anyone..been a very lonely journey i must say..glad i have found this forum and seeing that there are others out there that have been branded..yes it does seem like a club...how dreadful there is so many of us...good luck to us all ...

It is unfortunate, more than unfortunate that there are so little training requirements in the field permanent cosmetics. More time is spent training hairdressers and nail tech's than permanent makeup practitioners. Oddly, the attempt to raise the training bar has been met with disagreement and resistance from trainers themselves. Regarding your brows, thank you for your reiteration. Reputable and knowledgeable pigment manufactures would never produce browns (used in brow colors) from primary colors; the blue you describe tells me the brown was made by organic chemistry dyes and as such do tend to go 'off tone' quickly. Black should never be used to formulate permanent cosmetic brown eyebrow pigments. When producing brow colors, there is no logical reason other than cost, to combine primary color dyes, as the earth produces many natural browns without having to combine primaries. Umber and sienna are good examples. It's a common belief that if a color is mixed in a bottle and is a pleasing shade, that it will remain in the skin as that same pleasing color. This simply isn't true. Simply mixing colors does not chemically or physically bind them together and in the skin, the molecules and or liquids will separate and fade separately, hence the 'off tone' results many experience. The binding process of colors should take place in a laboratory and pass rigorous testing for deterioration by UV assault, longevity as well as safety well before manufacturing the product for use on the general public. Unfortunately, many pigment lines are combined in blenders in private home or offices. Possibly the removal of your brows may require the use of more than one type of laser. Hopefully your laser specialist is well experienced in the caveats of permanent cosmetic removal. Once the removal process is over, please research thoroughly the qualifications of the person who you choose to place the eyebrows again. If someone tells you they are 'certified', ask who certified them. Trainers cannot 'certify'. They can give 'certifications of attendance, course completion, but they may not certify a student. Only a certifying body may certify. A 'certificate' does not constitute certification. The Society of Permanent Cosmetic Professionals is a certifying body. Look for "CPCP" (Certified Permanent Cosmetic Professional). There is absolutely no legitimate advanced certification, so if someone touts words like "Master Technician", it simply is not credible. There is no 'master' certifying body, it would be no more than a piece of paper. Look instead for word of mouth referrals, SPCP membership, CPCP certification, referrals from doctors office staff etc. Then schedule a consultation. You will develop a relationship with your permanent cosmetics technician, and you have to be sure that you make that 'relationship' decision wisely. A good technician should be able to produce at least 150 hours of documented training, and that should be by someone who earns their living at performing procedures, not a manufacturer of equipment or pigments. There could be too many ulterior motives there. Best of luck to you in the future.

One more thing, Storm. Don't beat yourself up so badly. You are seeking the information you need to correct this and you are no doubt a much wiser person. I appreciate the fact that even though you are miserable with the current eyebrow situation, you are looking forward to having them redone correctly. Go easy on yourself.

hiya..ive just had a test patch done on the tail area of the left eyebrow..where the pigment had turned blue...its only been several hours and theres no evidence as yet of the pigment going black...i was wondering if it takes several hours to darken or would i have known by now? initially it turned white straight after the treatment as expected..its been two and half hours and the white has gone. the blue tone is still there but its really too soon to tell. i explained all about the content of the pigments used..high content of black some red and some yellow..all iron oxides and a small percentage of titanium oxide.the brown has faded completely leaving only the blue. they decided to go with the ruby laser..will keep you posted on the progress and hope it can help inform others. cheers

This is the first I've ever heard that there was a time frame for the effectiveness of tattoo removal lasers with iron oxide pigments, and it doesn't make any sense to me either. The way these lasers work is that the light energy is absorbed by complementary colored pigments until they explode like little grenades in the skin, becoming small enough particles to be removed by the macrophages into the lymphatic system. I believe that should be equally possible at any time.

I hope these last replies weren't confusing to anyone. I was replying to forwarded posts that were sent to me by email from this site, and also tried to post a comment regarding a specific post I saw earlier. But when I look at my my posts on the site, they don't indicate what post I have replied to. So I'd be a bit confused myself! I guess I'll just have to check the end of the thread next time before posting.

Hello, storm, I've gone pretty much the same path as yours. Terribly botched job on my eyes, then with a different operator on my eyebrows. I too went all over asking how I could get rid of these tattoos. I preferred to go "naked" than having these terrible paintings on the face.
After years of those things happening, I'm dying to have mi lips done, but,I'm scared to death of trying!!!
Yes,it is some consolation that these kind experts give their advice although...unfortunately after the fact.
Better luck to all of us! :o) Rosedala

If you are hispanic or black it is not advisable to get lip color. It tends to turn blue or dark purple. If you do get someone to do it, make sure they apply a bright orange or mango shade ...no purples, mauves or pinks should be used ever on dark skinned women due to the fact that they already have much blue in the lips. Laurie Flaum P.M. artist member of the spcp I am located in south Florida

I NEED HELP I have had my tattoo eyeliner done over two years ago I absolutely regret the day I had it done I live in London (UK) Searched all over with no hope this is a last resort. I want the eyeliner removed from my eyes where can I go to have it done where the procedure has already been performed? PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!

I know how u feel. It's been a long road. I'm currently getting ready to have my third laser treatment. It's working a little bit. But I feel and look like a freak.

Lady LA, and all others with this problem:

No responsible laser operator, let alone a dermatologist, will try to erase eyeliners so close to the eyes. If anyone thinks that injuring your eyes or even becoming blind it's worth it to erase a bad tattoo, then you need to think it over again and again.

I've gone your way, like a madwoman going to all dermatologists, laser operators, and a number of other places begging to eliminate my tattoos and they all refused...until I finally realized this was something I had to learn how to live with. By now they are much much lighter, and I've become accustomed to seeing myself that way, so I'm ok. AND all of you will be okay too. :) Rosedala

Jess, what did you have laser on? Not your eyeliner? If so, I'm curious to know where? That is, in what city? Thanks. Rosedala

You did not mention having the tattoo lightened with a flesh color of permanent make up . I do corrections often to correct bad jobs

Hi Laf, no, I was SO exhausted from my long running around to all those places that I thought could eliminate the whole thing...that I just resigned to live with it, BUT, time made them much much lighter, both my eyeliner which I had done many years ago, and my eyebrows that I had done last year (the latter became reddish though, argh!)

Yes, it was suggested that I have them covered by flesh color, but I didn't like it when I saw it on several women who had it, and they weren't happy with the "correction" either. Maybe you have more expertise.

In what city do you live? Because while I'm devastated with the experience, and I'm terrified of more...I'm still dying to have my lips done. ;)

I understand. Just make sure you go to someone with at least 5 years of experience and get lots of references. Make sure they are a member of the Society for Permanent Cosmetic Professionals. You can look up members in your area at the following web site: http://www.spcp.org/findatechnician/united.htm
I am in the Naples Florida area one week out of every month and the rest of the time I am working in Macon Georgia. Where do you live? I am a member and would love to do your lips but I don't know if you are close by. Lips usually take two visits to get the color you want but once healed, you will love it. I use both the softap, hand tool method and the machine method and feel confident that you will love my work.

The tattoo will fade naturally in time

Oh laf 1, I wish we were in the same or nearby city, alas I'm in NYC...I saw a permanent makeup person here: http://www.jackiedavidskincare.com/ and was told she has been doing this for 4 years. I don't recall whether I mentioned that at 84 I have many lines and wrinkles (the little vertical ones too) all around my lips, plus the usual secondary nasolabial lines, etc. and my concern was how would the lips look if they were done over these wrinkles/lines? Would they look zigzagged? To this Jackie suggested White Needling, a course she took last year. I'm thinking about taking one session which she said will be sufficient to tell if there's improvement.

What are your thoughts about these 2 areas of concern? You sound very professional and honest and will appreciate a lot your opinion. Rosedala

HI ladybird, 

Have you had permanent makeup? 

Thanks,

-Britt

Dry (not White) Needling is a technique of overtattooing without color to cause minor injury which stimulates new collagen in healing. It really should be done with post care using low level red light therapy to speed healing and new collagen production. If those wrinkles are deep, it won't take the place of a deep peel and/or fillers. But it may be a reasonable thing to try.