Get the real deal on beauty treatments—real doctors, real reviews, and real photos with real results.Here's how we earn your trust.

POSTED UNDER Mini Facelift REVIEWS

Short Incision Lift at Age 43

ORIGINAL POST

I have been reading this board for a long time. I...

Essenceoflife
WORTH IT$18,001
I have been reading this board for a long time. I had a mini-lift with Daniel Baker in NY in 2004 when I was very young and barely needed it. Preemptive strike, this is how I called it. Baker is still considered the top plastic surgeon in the US, but, before making my decision, I went to see him (travelling from out of state) three times. The first was the initial consultation, the second and the third visits were to address all the questions that came to my mind while in the decision-making process. In the end, I concluded he was the one for me. NOTE that at the time (and still now) he did not have a website, there were very few reviews of him, NO photos, and I came to know about him through friends. Still on this site there are 6 reviews on Daniel Baker, one of the world most renowned plastic surgeons, that should say something, right?
Certainly not like this site, where you see flashing 4-5 stars reviews on even the most mediocre never-heard of-, plastic surgeons, who probably spend a lot of money and effort to advertise their business.
The outcome? It was amazing (not perfect), but no scars, no bruises, 9 days recovery time, back at work in 14 days. I got married and my husband's friends who did not know me, thought I was 28 (I was 43). However, there was a drawback that was immediately obvious. Do not expect plastic surgery to be perfect because it never is, it always comes at a price, you gain something but also give up a bit, in the expression perhaps, the smile, the eye, etc. I had a slight asymmetry where my right cheek looked slightly bigger than the left one, and because he did not use any fillers (I hate fillers), there was also some hollowness in the sides of my cheeks. I lived with it perfectly well. I went to see him at least 5 times after the first surgery for a few issues, he never charged anything for the subsequent visits, this is how he is.
This procedure lasted 10 years. In fact at times, I wished it would relax a bit. Now, year 11 thereafter, it is starting to relax indeed, and the asymmetry really begins to bothers me, even though everyone says I look 10 years younger my age (thank you Dr. Baker). I have also started to see some fat underneath my neck, so I contemplating the idea of a small revision, for the lower face especially.
I have been thinking to go back to Baker, but his prices have more than doubled since, and he has been reluctant to do a revision to correct the asymmetry, perhaps because he thinks it will be difficult to correct or perhaps for other reasons. Anyhow I have not pursued Baker aggressively mostly because of the costs and perhaps he is also 11 years older now, even though he is still very active.
This is how I got to realself and one of the first doctors who captured my attention was, of course, Dr. Harley, given the number of reviews for the most part positive. However, after having read virtually all of his reviews, including either some overtly negative (some of which have been taken down), and others that showed minimal difference, I have decided against pursuing this Doctor. The major reason is that it seems to me he does a "one surgery fits all", the same type of surgery for everyone. After having looked at so many of his patients, I have come to the conclusion (my personal opinion), that this BL surgery provides very little benefits to women who have minimal signs of aging (beginning to relax the jows and neck) while perhaps is more advantageous for women who are a little bit forward in the aging process, especially when the neck is the major issue. The scars in front of the ears are way too pronounced (most of surgeons use pre-tragal incisions hidden inside the ear), the under chin scars looks huge (mine was 1 inch, disappear in 1 month), and the incisions on the back (having had them before) are not as clean as they should be, with huge folds and bumps.
And nerve damage, I also have my opinion about this, because with Baker for example, he mentioned the surgery could have given me "a weakness" (NOT a palsy) short-lasting and that he had seen this complication very few times out of literally thousands of surgeries that -I knew- he had performed. Additionally, in the case of Harley very few people post long term, his prices have increased, he does not do a face-to-face consult, the follow up is complicated by the distance, so....why take the slightest chance? We are not talking about Igor Pitangui or Daniel Baker, exactly.
Then I was impressed with some of the reviews of Dr. Jacono, but after researching carefully, there it goes with lawsuits and an unacceptable number of unhappy patients.
In essence, I have decided not do anything at all, at least until I am 99% confident (as I was with Baker) that the outcome would be good and I was in the best possible hands.
I decided to write my story not because of the happy patients, but because of several wonderful women here who have been unhappy and have decided to share their journey, expectations and frustrations. My advise for those who rely on this site for making their decisions, is DON'T, or be very, very careful because looking at Doctors here, is equivalent to looking at a commercial on TV.
Best to all.

Essenceoflife's provider

Daniel C. Baker, M.D.

Board Certified Plastic Surgeon

Essenceoflife rating for Dr. Baker:

Overall rating
Doctor's bedside manner
Answered my questions
After care follow-up
Time spent with me
Phone or email responsiveness
Staff professionalism & courtesy
Payment process
Wait times

Replies (86)

December 30, 2017
well said essenceoflife. ironically I had surgery with Harley in sept suffered nerve issues and luckily slowly recovering but it’s been a traumatic event. I too need some correction of my ears and area around them and was going to start my revision journey 6 months consulting with drs and one being dr Baker ironically. I was going to see him in Ny and some others there and after the emotional pain I went through the money has taken second seat. listening to what you say has given me pause in my decision.
December 31, 2017
Yes DaVinci, Baker repairs nerve damage. I think his experience and skills are unparalleled, but he is also very expensive and "strong minded". I know he turns many patients down when he does not see the need for a procedure or does not think there will be a benefit. I have seen your post and those of few others (at least a couple) who suffered from Bell palsy during this BL procedure which is highly unusual, making it for me totally unacceptable. I certainly would not want to take even the slightest chance, so thanks to you and all who posted with these problems. If I can help in any way, let me know.
December 31, 2017
*correction again, I meant facial nerve palsy, not Bell palsy...
December 31, 2017
She said nothing about needing nerve repair. She mentions her ears.
December 31, 2017
Try not to worry DaVi. I don't believe I have heard of anyone that has suffered permanent nerve damage on this board. Keep in touch with Dr. Harley and get back in to see him. Juanita, Lori and Kelley are pretty comforting too. Do you have a current pic of you smiling (not to show us)? I ask because I had a bit of it as well (my swelling was bad) and a recent pic compared to the one with the sag of the lip helps out ALOT! Its hard to be reassured with all the negativity being thrown about in recent months about Dr. Harley but don't be discouraged to reach out to him. The ear may be a bit of scar tissue that I'm sure he would fix. I hope you see some progress really soon because I know how it feels to have to comfort yourself. :(
December 31, 2017
Thanks MikkiDuff94. my nerve issue is improving and I am crossing my fingers the muscle will recover 100%. I’m just trying to be patient it’s probably 60% better right now and I feel more comfortable conversing with others. My earlobes look somewhat pulled now and I loved my ears prior so they will need repair. Dr Harleys suturing technique by temple area has drawn more attention to temple area but that area needs to be addressed anyhow. Thank you for your encouraging words.
January 3, 2018
She mentioned she had nerve issues.
January 4, 2018
January 4, 2018
It is only unresolved after a year of time and she claims it is getting better.
January 4, 2018
MikkiDuff, It's unresolved until it's resolved. Have you ever had a palsy for a year? You make it sound like no big deal when, in fact, it's a very big deal to live with.
January 4, 2018
No Mary, mine only lasted a couple months.
January 4, 2018
January 4, 2018
January 4, 2018
January 5, 2018
Your right MidCenturyMod1. Thank you for your sensitivity to this. Its a very BIG deal when your the one who has it. FL recovery is quite a journey in itself but add the nerve paralysis on top of that. You can’t be yourself, you think twice about everything like laughing,talking and smiling when you never had to before. Like Breathing is natural thing right? now you have to watch how you breathe when you never had to watch it before kind of feeling. You know what it’s like to see someone the first time after a FL but add nerve paralysis. Your wondering if someone is looking at your strangely because of the FL or if they think you had a stroke. They seem uncomfortable because they know you are. It’s complex and it’s isolating.
January 5, 2018
Wow divinci, you put into words exactly how I feel but have been unable to explain so eloquently. I experience the same feelings. Things that came naturally to me before now I think about all the time. "You can’t be yourself, you think twice about everything like laughing,talking and smiling when you never had to before." OMG this is how I feel all day long. I only find peace when I am alone in my house. I did not have a face lift. I had a muscle hemming OOS lip lift and a V2Y lower lip lift which left me with multiple complications.
January 8, 2018
Thank you Lostbeauty. I’m so sorry you really going through this. I hope you find a solution somehow. message me if you want. I see I can’t message you. Take care my friend.
User Avatar
December 31, 2017
Every doctor will have good and bad results, every single one. Also I think I a lot of people move on with there life after the procedure and don't come back to realself, that is probably why there are not many reviews post six months, but of all my research, Dr. Harley has the most post-six plus month reviews of any other surgeon on here. In fact, I can't even find one single doctor who has as many "facelift reviews". I've learned to only go with a specialist who focus's primarily on the procedure of choice. I am going with Dr. Harley, I am only 43, almost no laxity or jowls, but i'm still going for it and even the slightest bit of improvement is good enough for me. I'm in CA, met with quite a few for a consult, none of which impressed me the least bit.
December 31, 2017
True sandy. She says he doesn't do in person consults, which is obviously untrue, but the phone consult seems to have come about based on volume of requests from people who want the procedure immediately. Being as kind as he is he wants to help everyone. I mean after all, if they are beating down his door and stepping on people in front of them to be first then they must know they want it, right? All of this is just because someone didn't get everything they wanted after seeing so many happy. I prefer the in person consult because then doctors can get an idea of who is unrealistic with their expectations and decide whether they wish to deal with them.
January 2, 2018
Unless things have changed since I had my lift done, no in person consult is required to book a surgery, you need only provide 3 photos of your face. The in person consult is done 15 minutes before surgery. Am I the alleged "one" person who you are saying is unrealistic? What about Zsa Zsa, MarySang, Snowbird, and others who have posted poor results in the last 6 months? Is anyone who posts a poor result unrealistic?
User Avatar
January 3, 2018
When I booked my surgery they gave me a pre op appointment the day before my surgery which would have required me to come an additional day and I asked for it to be the same day in which they acclimated me. They have have accomadated my every wish including changing my 7 day appointment time from 11am to 630 am sk I can catch a early flight so I can get back to my business and my kids. They are even driving to cvs to drop off my prescription the day before my surgery. What other doctors office would do this? I have had many surgeries. Very familiar with doctors and how they work. Also an important factor for me is after Care if something goes wrong. He seems very caring and concerned from the posts I’ve read here. Some doctors wil just blow you off.
January 3, 2018
Sandy, you are happy with your choice and that is great! However plenty of others have complained that Harley's pre surgical face to face consults are done too close to the actual surgery. One of the biggest issues in doing a consult at the last minute is the inability to back out if its determined the BL will not correct the patient's aging concerns. Is the $1000 surgery deposit refundable if the consult (the day before/ day of surgery) reveals that the surgery will not meet the patient's expectations?
As far as the other accommodations I feel what you are describing is rather common for surgeons who cater to out of town patients. This is not my first rodeo either! Most surgeons will offer a bit of assistance vis a vis a shuttle, someone to drive you to the hotel after surgery, special pricing on local hotels, post surgical supplies, gift baskets, etc. The after care however is another issue. You are making some large assumptions about something you have not yet experienced, and I've already discussed my opinion on that matter so I won't delve into that again.
January 3, 2018
sandy, are you not worried that having the consult right before surgery will be wise? Others with the same day consult/surgery have spoken in great length about regretting that choice as it was hurried, some told the surgery wouldn't help their major issues. There's little chance of you backing out or being in the right frame of mind whether or not you wish to proceed immediately after the consult and minutes before surgery. And the office regularly drops off the prescription the day before surgery, it's just down the street. I have a feeling they just call in the prescription despite what they tell us. As for aftercare if something goes wrong, the doctor has allowed patients to go back to the hotel in a cab or uber, stay alone overnight and drive themselves back to the clinic the following morning still in bandages and on painkillers. That's a fact.
User Avatar
January 4, 2018
Midcenturymod1, there is a risk with every surgery, I have accepted that with each and every one I've had. I have had three in person consults here with other surgeons in California and a phone consult with Dr. Harley. I have very realistic expectations, in fact for me, the change will be so minor that probably no one will notice but myself. Of all of my consultations, I felt the best with Dr. Harley. My only concern is the risk of the temporary lip paralysis, that's all. I don't have major jowls or a lots of loose skin, so it can't be worse than what I have. I think most people will in fact think i'm crazy for wanting this procedure but i'm trying to stay ahead of the game. if I had a ton of loose skin, heavy jowls or a lot of issues to address, perhaps I would prefer an inperson consult. I'm also requesting a chemical peel and will ask about a lip lift during the consult. I understand this is risky, but again, this is with every surgery.
January 4, 2018
Sandy I was addressing the aftercare you talked about no the results. However now that you mention it I would surmise that Snowbird, Olivia and myself were trying to address What we thought were minor issues not excess amounts of sagging. I hope your surgery works out they way your are expecting it to.
User Avatar
January 4, 2018
Thank you, I appreciate all of the ladies here trying to help others out. I am really thinking about my decision....
January 4, 2018
Of course Sandy - and if you are locked in at this point and there is no turning back then make him work for you. You are the customer. Now that you know some of the pitfalls of this particular procedure you can address your concerns up front, find out if your aging will be addressed, what the cost of revision will be if needed, how long the results will last etc.
User Avatar
January 4, 2018
Thank you Olivia
January 4, 2018
I think, the most important thing is that you keep your mind open and be ready to run away if you do not feel is right. I was talking in private to someone else on this board, and she told me she wanted to walk away because she felt it was too rushed, but she did not, and she regrets she didn't. We ladies are blessed with something that the other sex does not have: gut feelings and intuition! Just go with those two up until the last minute and everything will be fine! Best to you.
January 4, 2018
Essence that is so true :-) But for some people by the time they are in Ashville they have already invested a non refundable deposit, non refundable plane fare and possibly non refundable hotel. It is very hard even with intuition to walk away at that point, so I do sympathize for the women in that situation.
January 4, 2018
I enjoy your healthy attitude sandy7217. Lots can happen before surgery that cause unwanted side effects. Take the lip palsy issue for instance ...it happens with cautery and swelling most times which resolves with no intervention. So if your blood isn't thin from alcohol, aspirin, herbals, and so on, then cautery is minimal which leaves minimal risk for the lip thing. Too much activity causes swelling to get worse so limit it after your procedure. So much of our result depends on us doesn't it? I really felt part of my healing process doing as recommended and its hard for active people but it is SOOOO worth it. I am sending you the biggest good luck vibes for the future riiiiighttttt..NOW!!! :)
January 4, 2018
Are you a doctor MikkiDuff? Please let us know the "so on" that you are referring to that you claim gives a woman a palsy after surgery. Of course it's not the doctor's fault so blame the victim/patient.
January 6, 2018
The face to face consult was encouraged & more than enough time was given. I did not feel rushed in the least and during the phone consult & emails back and forth, Dr Harley was frank & honest & never rushed in my experience & in other patients experience that I read about & messaged with. Not saying that that was your experience, just saying that there are a lot of people that had a very good experience with the face to face & phone consult. Also, there are no doctors that I've seen that will give back deposit within 3 weeks of surgery date & only ask for full payment the day of procedure (which he does). If one is concerned, then book your face to face 1 month prior which I'm sure he would happily agree to - in fact he would probably prefer it BUT people don't want the extra expense of travelling there twice or to wait, which I understand.
User Avatar
January 18, 2018
i have canceled my surgery and have booked with a local doctor. my initial consult was more than an hour long, and my preop today was an hour and a half. This doctor explains everything and ask's if there are any questions after every thing we speak of. I am SO GLAD i did not go through with the Biltmore lift. I am thankful for all the ladies that have shared there stories... i realized a in person consult and someone local is very important. it costs more but i'm also getting a liplift in which this doctor specializes in.
User Avatar
January 18, 2018
"Edit, my intial consult with my current doctor in S. CA.
December 31, 2017
Yes Essenceoflife is there a way to message or contact you?
December 31, 2017
Yes, I will pm you..
January 3, 2018
January 3, 2018
User Avatar
January 4, 2018
For the record, I don’t want to get lumped into the disgruntled patient bunch just yet. I’m 8weeks out. It’s till early in the game. Let’s give it the full recovery time before I post my final opinion on the BL, in its entirety. Just saying. right now I am sharing my experience and opinions, but I’m not expressing that the BL has been a total flop. I really can’t say either way just yet.
January 4, 2018
Snowbird I think everyone knows that - and that you are trying to work out any issues with the doctor.
User Avatar
January 4, 2018
I’m not sure that I even want to work anything out, even if it possible. I don’t know if I want to risk more scars and deal with healing and numbness all over again. Besides, I’m not even sure Dr. Harley would agree that some type of fix or revision would be possible or offered.
January 4, 2018
Snowbird, my intention was not to “lump you in with the disgruntled patient bunch” reviews. I was merely letting sandy know that, contrary to what some people think, many of the unsatisfied customers did not go into surgery looking like a 16 year old Shar Pei with expectations of coming out looking like the model Gisele Bundchen. Women are commenting (or trying to) on their personal results with their mini lifts, the complications they have endured and whatever other problems that have arisen. I do take exception to the word “disgruntled” to describe myself or anyone that’s brave enough to come forward since the word is synonymous with the terms bad tempered, petulant, griping, vexed.
January 4, 2018
Snowbird, I want to add that you are right to take this healing slowly and carefully and not make full judgements until more time has passed.
January 4, 2018
I hear that - I'm wouldn't be interested in a revision for mine. Don't want to risk any nerve damage or scarring, time off work, etc. But if you wanted to, he probably would offer you a revision.
UPDATED FROM Essenceoflife
13 years post

Correction

Essenceoflife
Correction: date is 2006 not 2004

Replies (3)

User Avatar
January 4, 2018
Thank you for sharing your thoughts i agree
December 27, 2018
I agree I feel that Dr Harley and his signature Biltmore lift is heavily touted here on realself. Suspiciously so. Is there any other doctors with as many reviews? I did a SMAS which is supposedly the gold standard medical procedure for a neck lift and the downtime is significant AS IT SHOULD BE for a good long term result. I don’t believe the ‘Biltmore Lift’ is an effective SMAS.
March 14, 2019
N