Tina V.

Thank you, Lillyrn, for your nice comments! I had forgotten all about having posted my long message a few years ago. I did so at the time when I saw someone else complaining about the exact same clinic (Vancouver Laser Skin Care Clinic in Vancouver, WA)which reminded me of the horrible treatment I receiv ed at this clinic. After all the deceit and damage they did to my skin, they never even refunded the cost of products they sold me after the laser treatment as they said they would before I paid for them. They also told me that the results of the laser treatments would be enhanced if I purchased their Epionce products which were 100% refundalbe. Never got a dime back.

I now suspect that part of their problem was just lack of experience and being inept at customer service at the time; but when I reported all the problems to them initially, they just made false statements to deny what really happened instead of giving me a simple refund as I was requesting. They statements just kept flip-flopping to suit their convenience at the moment.

The problem with the BBB resolution was that the BBB personnel determining the case had no knowledge in skin care or lasers. They thought that giving me one treatment to make up for the one I was promised but never received was adequate. The BBB did not know that the treatment was useless at that late date because the timing of the 3 treatments was crucial. The manufacturer of the laser told me so themselves. The lies the clinic made up in their response to my BBB clinic were vicious. And they obviously never intended to treat my forehead in the first place because the inexperienced technician who treated me told me so.

I have since been able to afford less expensive, less painful and less damaging treatment than Titan, Genesis and Epionce with better results. Local IPL treatments did far more to improve broken capillaries than Vancouver Laser Skin Care Clinic laser did. I also had a $250 treatment with another older laser that did far better than Genesis for scars and fine lines. That does make me wonder whether it was the Titan equipment itself or the technician?

Obviously, this place was just a rip off, but I bet they learned a lot about proper customer service at my expense and don't deceive the client at the intial consultation as much as they did me -- and then try to ignore the complaints and finally wave the waiver around as if that voids fraud which it doesn't.

Lori K., why did you tell me minutes prior to my treatment that Titan would give ma a natural look on my forehead and then you don't treat my forehead which your tech said was on purpose? And then you gave me a double treatment which the manufacturer said doesn't exist? Didn't you know that or did you deliberately try to deceive me. You should still give me a refund for good karma.

But I'm glad that my comments have been read my many people and have been helpful to some. I really asked a lot fo questions beforehand, too, but this person just kept telling me what she thought I wanted to hear to get my business. I gave them ample opportunity to recitfy the matter, too, and they just kept adding insult to injury.

Like you, I have tried chemical peels, too, which were more helpful than Titan or Genesis. New technology is becoming available all the time, so don't give up hope for a complexion that doesn't embarrass you. Just be very careful about the operators you choose.

Good luck. Let me know if I can answer any specific questions for you from what I learned. I got 2 IPL treatments (partial face) for $110 each in addition to the $250 laser treatment that did far more good than Vancouver Laser Skin Care Clinic did for $3200 which was actually harmful. I also find that taking fish oil and/or flax seed oil orally improves my skin, too.

Good luck!

You know -- I really think you have legal recourse if they did not warn you that your own teeth were being destroyed in the process. I was very young when I got my first of 3 sets of veneers done, and was too passive to challenge my dentist much. But I would now. I do believe they have A DUTY to advise you of the permanent damage even if you didn't specifically question the possibility. There is no way a consumer can anticipate every possible issue involved, so the professional must have a duty to inform you. As I mentioned in my previous post, when I was seeking new dentists to repair the damage of the first one, whose work fell apart in the first year, some of the other dentists who were not interested in repairing my teeth unless I could pay in full in advance, did advise me to sue the guy. That's big. Dentists were telling me to sue another dentist because his work and treatment of me made them mad. Of course, it was not just because he didn't warn me of the permanent damage, but mainly because his expensive work was falling apart in my mouth day-by-day. You won't find many lawyers interested in making a case out of this because it's not worth a lot of money for their efforts considering the amount involved, but that doesn't mean you don't have one, and you could take him to Small Claims for the maximum amount they can award you there .... assuming you never want to go back to him! I wonder if you've even talked to the dentist about your displeasure with his lack of forthrightness about the permanent damage. Are you otherwise satisified with the quality of his work other than lack of info and pain? Sounds like maybe you're in Los Angeles like I was when I got my first set -- maybe we went to the same guy! Is he in the Valley? Good luck ... check out my other posts on my laser skin care treatments in Vancouver. I give up! It's cheaper and less frustrating to stay ugly! Sigh ...

Yes! I wish I had stuck with my Fraxel as originally planned when I did my research, altho even that might have turned out less than I hoped for. Will never know. Can't afford it anymore unless I win the lotto. It's so funny! (One has to have humor ...) after submitting my description of my experience in the Titan/Genesis clinic, I was curious if they were still in business and went to their website. They don't advertise Genesis anymore -- they offer Fraxel! The one they talked me out of in favor of their stuff. Oy vay. But to be fair, they never said specifically that Genesis is better than Fraxel, but they certainly and intentionally lead me to believe that it could do similar things for less money. She even drew a diagram about the costs of Genesis and we compared it to the cost of what the dermatologist wanted fro Fraxel. Everything I said I wanted from Fraxel, the owner said Genesis would do. But their worst marketing was the deceptiveness about Titan. Clearly stated it was better than Thermage. Followed me to the parking lot with Titan literature. I thought the owner was just enthusiastic about the products, and I caught the excitment. Maybe she was. But she went overboard and then tried to hide behind a waiver and was very rude and negligent in not responding to my serious concerns. I also told this woman that the package I was buying for 3 treatments of Titan and Genesis was virtually my life's savings that I had been scrimping to repair my complexion that caused me distress and that would be all I could afford. At the end of my third session, when my skin was worse than when I started, she recommended that I come in for monthly treatments and she'd give me a $50 discount so that I would "only" be giving them an additional $450/mo after the $4000 I originally gave them. I'm not sure how this got posted on the Mixo/CO2 page. I should submit it on the Fraxel page, I guess. Thanks for your comments.

I forgot to add about my laser debacle above that at my consultation the owner advised me that she personally had extensive experience working with lasers, particularly Thermage, which she did not like because she hated the pain she was causing on her clients. But I think the Titan and Genesis lasers that I was treated with were new to her. At the consultation, I got the impression that she would personally be treating my skin from the way she stressed her experiecne, but when I went for my first treatment, a young tech did the work on me. I noticed that the young tech, who was extremely pleasant and attractive which was good advertisement for the clinic, had a much gentler hand with the equipment than the owner did. When the owner personally gave me a "double treatment" of Titan on my forehead because the tech had never done foreheads, I noticed that the owner with laser experience pushed the device into my face much more firmly than the tech did. The tech did most of the work overall, however Maybe that is why I got no results? Buyer beware. I wish I had spoken up when all these discrepancies arose, but the tendency is to think that "the professionals" must know what they are doing.

I am on my third set of veneers and some have broken more often than that. I would never do it again, but now I'm stuck since I only have stubs underneath. But the pain and sensitivity does eventually go away, if that helps at all. May take a few months. Even after 4 years, I occasionally have some sensitivity but only in 2 of the 8 I had done and nothing severe. Having had 3 sets, I have a lot of experience. Three sets in about 20 years, that is. My first dentist also did not warn me that he was shaving my own teeth away, only that the prep would take awhile. No warning whatsoever of the damage to my own teeth. I was shocked to see what he had done, but it was too late. I hadn't even made preparations to be out of public view or anything for the 2 weeks it took to get my new teeth and had to go to work and everywhere with nubs for teeth. No temporaries were provided as my current dentist does when I need veneer repair. With my original set of 8, almost all of them broke or came completely off within the first year. Just disappeared into the food I was eating no matter how soft. He told me he was Dentist to the Stars in Hollywood, too, and trained other dentists in veneers, but something went horribly wrong. I paid in full to repair the first tooth but had no dental insurance and could not pay cash to repair all the others that were breaking, and the dentist would not help me out at all, not even with a payment plan. His office manager wouldn't even put me through to him on the phone to talk about it. I went to other dentists for advice and help, and one told me to sue the original guy. I didn't. Just wanted my mouth fixed. I finally did find a dentist who was also a kind gentleman who fixed my broken teeth/veneers and let me pay on a payment plan. (That was years ago so maybe things/the products used and techniques are much better now. My latest dentist is definitely well-versed, compassionate and helpful. And he sends his patients to the lab where the veneers will be made to select a color, which none of the others did. Very professional. I would recommend him.) At the time the second nicer-than-the-first dentist was removing my original veneers, he told me that the originals just crumbled off which was a sign that they were defective to begin with, and they were only about a year old or so. But the pain does go away! And I bet your teeth look better than before. I would never do it again because of the expense involved in replacing them as often as I have had to because I thought they were forever, and I also did not know that my own original teeth would be wittled away like they were. I never would have agreed to that had I known. Sometimes I wonder if it's payback for my vanity or something because I had really bad luck with my complexion laser treatments, too! Veneers and one package of laser treatments are all "the work" I've ever had done, and both went horribly wrong and cost me thousands. Ripped off both times. Bad karma? With my laser treatments, I did do research and shop around but was fooled; but for my teeth, I just went with the first dentist I saw and thought the fact that he was located in a part of Los Angeles with money and had celebrity clients meant something. I didn't have a celebrity bank account, tho!