Sophie8

Nd:yag 1064nm for Broken Capillaries on Nose: WARNING - Can Cause Scarring! - London, UK

Hi, I am very sorry to hear about your experience. I know exactly how distressing it is. How long ago did you have the procedure done? Which type of laser was used? I wish I could give you some advice on what to do, but so far nothing has really helped, apart from letting the skin heal by itself. I've had subcision, dermafiller and dermapen treatments, with little or no improvement. I have decided to let the scars be for a couple of months and then see an expert on scarring. I have tried using dermaflage to temporarily cover the pits. It is tricky to use, but works fairly well as a temporary solution. The first weeks and months after I had the scarring were extremely distressing. It has now been six months and the scarring is less visible, or even if it isn't you slowly get used to it. It is so very upsetting that people keep having these experiences, with practitioners downplaying the risks and even denying there has been any damage, when it is clearly visible. I have thought about taking legal action, not only to be properly refunded but also to raise awareness about this issue. But don't know how to go about it, or if I have the strength to do so. Again, I am really sorry about your experience. S

Hi, I am so sorry to hear about your experience and completely understand how distressing this is, not only because of the damage to your skin and the psychological stress this causes, but also because of the insistent denial of the practitioner that something is wrong. My dermatologist has never admitted that she burned me with the laser and that she made a mistake with the settings, she maintains that it is "normal" to get blisters, scabbing and pits, that it "happens all the time" and is easy to fix. If this was normal, why was I not warned? Why would anyone undergo a treatment when it is "normal" to get scars (that, by the way, are not easy to fix)? The pits do get more shallow with time and the redness fades. I think it is very individual, mine are still very noticeable and they are still in the healing process. Some people's skin heal better than others. My dermatologist has now done subcisions, injected dermal filler (made it look much worse as the filler ended up surrounding the indentation, making it appear deeper) and used dermapen to reverse the damage. I don't see much improvement - I sometimes wonder if it would just have been better to let it be and if all of these additional treatments might have made things worse... I am going to see another dermatologist in January (long waiting list), specialising in scarring. Until then I think I will just let it be. I am currently using tretinoin every other night, hoping it might help a little. The dermapen might help also, but the scars look much worse before they look better. I know of another person with the same damage who tried Fraxel repair, but saw little improvement. I have tried Dermaflage, to temporarily fill in the pits, for social occasions. It works pretty well (it takes practice to get it right), but I wouldn't recommend it for every day use as I think it slows down/prevents the healing process. I wish I could say something to cheer you up. All I can say is try to be patient, it will get better. Try to stay away from mirrors and looking too much at the scars (will only make you upset and make the scars look worse than they really are). Stay in touch and I will keep you updated on any progress. Warmest regards, S

Dear Jay,

Again, I am really sorry that you are in this situation. Don't blame yourself, I do that a lot too, but in the end this is not our fault - it is the responsibility of the practitioner to inform us of potential risks and to care for our safety. Also, some responsibility lies with the manufacturers of these machines and the bodies that approve them, but in the end money seems to, as so often, surpass ethics...

I had V beam too, without any problems and I so wish I would have stayed with that. The only reason I tried this is because my capillaries kept coming back after the V-beam, quite rapidly as well, and I was hoping this would make them stay away. Well, now they are still there and I have two dents.

IPL seems to be, despite all its promises, a quite risky treatment. It seems to be like a Russian roulette, sometimes all goes perfectly well, sometimes horrendously wrong, and the practitioner is not always to blame when things go bad - they can use the same settings as on a previous occasion on the same patient and all of a sudden there are irreversible side effects.

To be honest, I think these machines are approved too easily and then they use people as guinea pigs trying to learn how to use these machines properly. There are so many different models, working at different wave lengths, everything to make people think that this machine is the very "latest", when the very latest might be the option with most risks since it hasn't been tried out for a longer time.

The problem with IPL is that it offers treatment to Rosacea patients, like you and me, who are often lacking effective treatments and are desperate for improvement and so we take the chance and hope for the best, comforted by doctors saying how safe it is, not being a laser and all.

Regarding scar revision, I will keep you updated on how the subcision turns out. In the meanwhile I think the best all of us can do is to try to let time pass and the scars settle - even if it is disheartening and not fall into any "quick-fixes". Maybe retin-A might help a little, I have also read about people using Bio-oil/Emu-oil and/or copper peptides and needling for the same type of damage but I think it might be too early to try this out.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is indeed sad we are here, but at least we can offer some support and hopefully make other people stay away from this procedure, and other similar ones.

All the best,
S

I am thinking about making an FDA report on the machine and post about it on an ipl and laser damage forum that I have found online. Have been feeling quite upset ever since the procedure and now I am trying to keep my mind off it, letting time heal (hopefully), but eventually I would like to make some sort of complaint so as to prevent others from having the same negative experience as we have.

Dear Jay,

First of all, I am very sorry to hear about your experience. I feel for you, knowing how distressing this situation can be. I blame myself a lot, thinking that I should have checked the procedure more carefully instead of blindly trusting my dermatologist. You go in for improvement and then you get this...

It is, as you say, very upsetting that none of us were properly informed about the risks - when clearly there are risks (I think often heavily understated by the technicians who perform these procedures...) Had I known that I could potentially end up with red/purple dents I would never have done this for something, which in the light of all this, very minor.

I would strongly advice you AGAINST any Fraxel treatment. I have read so many negative reviews about this procedure (and other lasers working with a pixel technique) with serious side effects that are irreversible. Even if you would not get side effects I really doubt that it would help with the dents on the side of your nose. It is just not worth the risk in my opinion.

The dermatologist who performed the nd:yag on my nose is now treating the scarring, which she still refuses to refer to as "scarring" or "damage" but rather she tries to frame it so that this is actually some sort of after care, just dealing with a rather normal outcome... This is particularly upsetting since I feel she is treating me as if I am overreacting to something that is in fact "normal", when clearly scarring is not normal. She has not reimbursed me for the procedure, but is doing the scar revision treatments for free.

I have had one subcision treatment with a very small amount of filler, hyaluronic acid (Stylage). Directly after the procedure I could see improvement, the scar seemed a bit raised and more at level with the surrounding skin, but that went down after a couple of days. I think it was the swelling from the needle that caused this.

My dermatologist told me that I need 4 subcision and filler treatments and that it will be a gradual improvement. Subcision works in the way that the needle cuts off the scar "fibres" to release the scar and let blood flow in so as to stimulate new collagen production. This process can take a couple of months. She claims the skin will go back to normal, which I know is certainly not true (once you have scarring it will never go away entirely), but I am hoping for improvement.

Retin-A might help in terms of mildly peeling the top layer of the skin and stimulating collagen, but I don't think it can entirely reverse the damage.

I have also read about TCA cross, performed on pitted acne scars. After what happened I feel nervous about any type of advanced procedure - and will certainly never go near a laser again - and I will wait and see if the subcision helps, if it doesn't I might try TCA.

Regarding seeing another dermatologist for a second opinion, I would strongly advice you to do so. I have not been able to do so because the dermatologists I have contacted (all with very good reputation) do not wish to treat another doctor's mistake, also they would of course charge me a lot if they would do so. But if you can find someone I would advice that you do so.

Please feel free to email me if you would like to discuss this further. Again, I am very sorry that this has happened to you.

Kind regards,
S