Fraxel Failed to Work on my Acne Scars
- Asked by frankm in toronto
- 5 years ago
Hi. I have a question regarding Acne Scars. I have undergone six sessions of Fraxel Refine to minimize or make my scars disappear, which did not happen. The practitioner who did the procedure suggested Fraxel Repair but couldn't assure me that it'll work on my face. I was wondering how good of an improvement can you get out of Fraxel Repair. Will I see a huge difference? Thank you.
The real story on acne scars
Here's the deal with acne scars: no laser is really going to do all that much for them. Sorry, but acne scars are very difficult to treat and you are never going to go back to where you want with any laser alone. Even with the best of treatments, you are going to have about 50% improvement and that is with fillers such as restylane and perlane, which will be doing the heavy lifting.
Prior to having Fraxel, Cool Touch, Fraxel Re:pair and every other laser that has promised to improve acne scars but didn't, I performed full face CO2 lasers on patients with acne scars. The results were not all that impressive, despite the fact that patients went through 2 weeks of sheer torture during the recovery phase. That, on top of the price in the $4000 range that made it *seem* like something ought to have happened. Due to this fact, I stopped doing the older, CO2 laser and haven't missed it one bit.
Now, unfortunately, we have a whole new generation of doctors and quasi cosmetic surgeons (family practitioners, nurse practitioners, Ob Gyns, etc) who have now purchased these lasers for their medispas and are trying to generate some cash, along with laser companies that are desperate to sell their machines. So, the old concept of treating acne scars with a laser such as Fraxel is once again being trotted out and desperate patients are being duped once more.
The truth is that it does precious little for acne scars and typically not enough to make someone spend the money and recovery time to do the treatment. What I tell patients is that if the money is something that you care about and it is anywhere near a stretch to do the procedure, you don't want to do it for acne scars. Wrinkles are a whole different situation because it does work for these. Acne scars not so much. And the recovery time, if the scars are done correctly with it, is going to be about a week or two along with major downtime and oozing. So, think twice before doing this procedure, despite what the laser companies and many doctors are telling you!
Fraxel has many names
- For moderate to severe acne scars you need ablative lasers with downtime.
- Erbium yag lasers that go deep such as sciton profractional can get results almost all acne scars in most skin types.
- Fraxel Re:pair is the CO2 version that can also get results though with more downtime than the erbium yag lasers.
- If your scarring is mild then you might consider nonablative fraxel or others but remember there is no free lunch and lasers with no downtime may need multiple treatments to achive results of more aggressive lasers
Acnes scars are challenging
Dr. Schlessinger has hit it on the head.
Fraxel (any generation) is great for fine wrinkles. Deep acne scars are more challenging. The key is improvement. Some ablative laser techniques can improve even deep acne scars but be prepared for significant downtime (think weeks at home with a hoodie and sunglasses).
I hope this helps.
Recent Fraxel Laser Reviews
Fraxel Laser Photos
Many types of fractional lasers and options for acne scars - none are a home-run
What concerns me is your use of the word "disappear". No one should ever tell you that any procedure, no matter how many you do, will cause your scars to "disappear".
The problem with acne scars is that no matter what you do they will never be 100% gone. You could do 20 Fraxel treatments and your scars wouldn't be 100% gone. It's true that the more treatments you do, the better the results but there is a law of diminishing returns and for acne scars it's more a logarithmic curve--at some point, you do not get back as much as you put in and eventually the results just level out and don't keep getting significantly better. The reason is that acne scars are holes or defects in the skin--the laser cannot remove the hole, the best it can do is to soften the shoulders of the hole so the drop-off isn't so apparent. That's why fillers often work better than lasers on deep crater scars because they plump up the depression but it's very difficult to treat every scar on the face with fillers. It's also very cost prohibitive to use temporary fillers because they have to constantly be redone to maintain the results. A permanent filler such as Artefill might be appropriate for certain deep depressions or crater scars. However, acne scarring has 4 types: ice-pick, box car, rolling, and hypertrophic. Each type of scar has to be addressed in a different way. In addition, most people are more bothered by the discolorations than the actual depressions themselves.
Now, if you're going to invest in a procedure, you need to know what to expect from all the different procedures and the options are wide and bewildering. Noninvasive lasers such as KTP, Nd:YAG, pulsed dye, alexandrite, ruby, and IPL can address red and brown discolorations. This can make the acne scars look significantly better without having to go thru the downtime and hassel of the invasive or ablative procedures.
In order to achieve textural improvement, one must turn to resurfacing procedures (which require some downtime, some less than others). Dermabrasion and phenol peels are actually quite effective but have the downside of making the skin texture appear unnatural or waxy, and high risk of loss of pigmentation (hypopigmentation).
CO2 laser is the gold standard, most painful and invasive laser, but achieves the best results. It is home-run for wrinkles but not so for acne scars. At best, one may achieve on average 50-60% improvement after one CO2 laser. That means there may be some scars (especially the deep pitted or ice-pick scars or box car or crater scars that do not respond at all).
Fractional CO2 laser has become a new gold standard for acne scarring but once again, not a home-run. There are many different brands of fractional CO2 and they differ in the amount of energy, therefore effectiveness. The Lumenis ActiveFX and DeepFX are the most powerful of the fractional CO2 lasers and capable of achieving the best results. The Repair is less powerful than the ActiveFX and DeepFX. The ActiveFX and DeepFX have the ability to be turned down to match the weakest of the fractional CO2 lasers--but the converse is not true--the other fractional CO2 lasers cannot be turned up to match the ActiveFX and DeepFX. (ie: A Ferrari can be driven at the speed of a golf cart, but a golf cart cannot be driven at the speed of a Ferrari). The CORE and Mixto lasers are also less powerful and less effective.
Having said that, even the best fractional CO2 laser only gives about 20-30% improvement per treatment if combining both ActiveFX and DeepFX together. After 3 treatments of both, one can get about 50-60% improvement of their acne scars. Doing more can give incrementally better results but at some point, one has to ask if it's really worth paying more money especially if doing even 6 more is not going to get you to 100%.
Fractionated Erbium lasers such as the Fraxel Restore or Refine or Pearl or Profractional or Affirm are even less effective than the fractional CO2 lasers so you would have to do many more treatments to even get decent results.
Refine is the weakest of the fractional lasers--it was designed for use by nonskilled practitioners in order for them to not "get in trouble". Unfortunately the lower power also makes the results from Refine almost not noticeable. The Refine is MUCH weaker than the Repair so it's possible that you may get better results with the Repair...but not a lot better. You will not see a "huge" difference.
Most patients can be quite happy with any of these procedures as long as the physician properly helps to establish the right expectation level. The question is always whether the results are worth the money and time you're investing. There is no perfect procedure unfortunately that will make your acne scars completely gone. If someone asked me what the one best procedure to do is to get the best results for their acne scarring: if discolorations are the primary issue, the best would be noninvasive lasers such as KTP and Nd:YAG, and IPL. If the issue is textural irregularity such as depressions, I would say the one best laser is DeepFX, and if someone could afford it, to combine DeepFX with ActiveFX. And then to follow up with fillers to the residual crater scars.
Web reference: http://www.eastbaylaser.com/
Fraxel repair will have subtle improvements with each treatment
Fractioned lasers will gradually improve your scars. It also depends on how your scars look. Some scars need to be excised first before they actually can get really better. Other times require subcision techniques which require you to use different instruments, such as punch biopsies or needles to elevate depressed scars so that they match the surrounding levels of the skin. You may need more significant approaches for the scars such as co2 resurfacing as well to get the results that you really want. Also, some scars require excision and closure and further resurfacing to improve them.
Fraxel laser and acne scars; Improvement of scars with fraxel pixelated laser.
Acne scars cannot be eliminated by any means. They can only be improved, regardless of the type of treatment. This discussion should take place with any consultation of acne scars. The improvement of acne scars can be qualitative and quantitative but is never predictable.
Fraxel laser works by subjecting the skin surface to pixelated beams of laser light. The depth of treatment is within the dermis and the amount of skin surface treated at any given time is less than 25%. Thus, four or five treatments can theoretically treat the whole skin surface.
Discuss the nature and depth of your acne scars and more importantly, the quality of the surrounding skin with your doctor so as to form a practical goal for treatment.
Fraxel re:fine not for acne scars
Let's be frank Frank, Fraxel re:fine is the original Fraxel SR1500 but a much weaker version (limited energy and density). It was marketed to be a safe laser for very superficial fine lines and brown spots, not deep acne scars. Fraxel re:pair has been very successful with acne scarring, sometimes in a single treatment, but I always council patients that it may take 1 to 3 treatments depending upon the individual. You should see a huge difference with the Fraxel re:pair. Choose your treating physician carefully and be well.
There are two kinds of lasers: Ablative: Removes top...
There are two kinds of lasers:
- Removes top layer of skin.
- Requires one treatment.
- Requires 3-4 weeks of downtime.
- Doesn't remove the top layer and doesn't create a raw surface.
- Requires multiple treatments.
- Doesn't require downtime.
Fraxel is a non-ablative laser that only treats 20% of the area, and therefore requires 5 total treatments. Fraxel works by heating up tissue so the body can lay down collagen. You need to wait 2-3 weeks between treatments. And, because it is milder than an ablative treatment, you need to wait several month to see results.
Ultimately, the patient needs to choose between faster results and more down time (ablative) or slower results and no downtime (non-ablative, Fraxel)
Fraxel Refine for Acne Scars
If you look at the family of Fraxel Lasers, the Refine is the weakest developed primarily for med spas and non derm or plastic practices. After that is the Fraxel Restore which is the original Erbium Yag Fraxel. Finally, the strongest is Fraxel Repair which is one of the most effective fractionated CO2 lasers on the market. Many of our patients are extremely happy with a series of Fraxel Restores for acne scars since it has minimal downtime. We tell out patients that they do not need to prepay for a series. Instead, we let the patients judge their happiness with each treament and decide when they are social and financially ready to do another one. Fraxel Repair is generally a one time with 7-10 day down time procedure for dramatic improvement of acne scars. It works wonderfully for acne scars but you have to be very good about following all before and after medications and skin care instructions. These precautions are necessary to avoid any complications.
No improvement of acne scars with Fraxel Refine
I am not surprised that you didn't receive benefit in acne scarring with Fraxel Refine. This laser was developed for the spas and not for physician treatment, therefore it is not expected to penetrate deep enough to affect acne scars. Multiple Fraxel Restore treatments often provide my patients with better acne treatment results than the old fashioned carbon dioxide laser treatment. Fraxel Repair is the most aggressive laser and it can help acne scars also. See a laser specialist who has a significant experience in the treatment of different types of acne scars.
These answers are for educational purposes and should not be relied upon as a substitute for medical advice you may receive from your physician. If you have a medical emergency, please call 911. These answers do not constitute or initiate a patient/doctor relationship.