Bad reaction to MiXto SX laser treatment?

I am 38 years old and had the mixto Co2 laser treatment 12 days ago. The doctor did a double pass with the laser. All of my brown spots are gone and my skin is tighter with less wrinkles. I am supposed to keep seeing improvements over the next six months. The first six days after the laser treatment were difficult for me. I thought the laser was painful.

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We have continued to gain experience with the Mixto -finding that it is the most versatile laser we have had. We just added the G2 upgrades which has added even more variables. The point to this is that it is not the number of passes that are made that determines the recovery - but rather the choice of other variables such as power, density, spacing, and "stacking" as well. We also use a defined pre-treatment schedule depending on the amount of energy we are going to apply. For instance, just topical for superficial, topical and ativan for intermediate, and topical, ativan, and vicodan for deeper. This is very effective in control of discomfort. Dr. Mayl

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Hi The rash took 3 days, and then most of it washed off. I am now further along the line and do not see a difference to be honest. Yes, I see a difference but in my wallet...Maybe you have to be very wrinkly to see results? Also I have bags under my eyes, which I first did not have. My face still is reddish. I hope that it will improve as promised. My skin reddens more quickly too which I never had a problem with. The other day I had a couple of strong cocktails and afterwards I became bright red with big red spots on my throat and my facial skin felt very hot and burning. Never never had this before. I had to go home because I looked like a traffic light.

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Firstly, you can assume the FDA clearance is usually more about safety than about effectiveness when it comes to lasers. Secondly, a "horrible result" needs to be better defined. Was it lack of effectiveness,pigmentation, etc.? Unfortunately results claimed are more a question of ethics rather than legality.

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I was all set to start Fraxel treatments with a reputable dermatologist when I went to a Vancouver laser skin care clinic in Washington state for a second opinion. Unfortunately, I let myself be talked out of the Fraxel by the owner of the clinic who did not offer Fraxel but offered me Titan treatments in addition to Genesis laser treatments for only a few hundred dollars more than what the Fraxel alone would have been. She was comparing the potential Genesis results to the Fraxel and also adding Titan for tightening. I now wonder if she even knew what Fraxel was at the time since this was about 5 years ago. My problems were acne scars, large pores, broken capillaries (the dermatologist wanted to do IPL before Fraxel for this) and age-related sagging which I knew the Fraxel would not address. The clinic told me that Titan was better than Thermage which the owner said she had a lot of experience with. Wrinlkes and fine lines were not big issues for me, but I made a point of saying that I was interested in tightening mainly for my forehead because drooping skin there was really making my brows droop. I was scheduled to have 3 treatments of each process. Titan was painful, and I saw no tightening at all in the end. The Genesis did nothing visible, either, and the expensive skin care products I was told would be beneficial (Epionce) post-treatment actually caused my very oily, acne-prone skin to break out severely and cause more significant scars while I was paying $3200 to remove old ones. Perhaps the lasers themselves added to the acne flare-up, too, but I told the clinic that the Epionce seemed awfully emollient for my very oily skin, especially the sun screen they said I needed to use after treatments. A good hat would have probably been safer and not caused me to break out so much. The worst part was the deceit, tho. I think that some of these businesses think that because they get you to sign a waiver that absolves them if you see no results because the waiver states they do not guarantee results, they can tell you whatever they want to at the consultation to get your business and then say "too bad, you signed a waiver" if you have problems, but I do not believe that a waiver absolves intentional misrepresentations, negligence or fraud. As I said, I primarly wanted Titan to lift my brows. Immediately prior to the first Titan treatment at my first appointment, I reminded the owner of this and asked if the treatment could raise my brows too much so that I had "that surprised look" all the time which I wanted to avoid. (I was surprised all right at how the whole process evolved.) She reassured me that Titan would provide natural results and I wouldn't look artificial afterwards. But they never treated my forehead at all at the first session despite the fact that I paid them for it, reminded them the day of, and had advised them this was my primary reason for wanting Titan over and over during various conversations. In the excitement -- and pain -- of the day, I didn't realize until I got home that they never passed the Titan equipment over my forehead at all, only my lower face. Also, Titan was painful but I tried to intentionally tolerate more pain than was comfortable so that I could get the most bang for my buck because I was spending my life savings on these facial conditions that had bothered me for years. The tech even commented that they had never before been able to set the machine so high as I was tolerating, and the owner commented at how good my results would be as a result. Maybe she believed it, I don't know, but she was wrong. At the second treatment, when I reminded the very pleasant technician that they "forgot" to treat my forehead the first time, she told me that they did not forget at all. She told me that they intentionally avoid the forehead because they don't believe that Titan has any effect on that part of the face. That's not what the owner told me at my consultation or when I had subsequent conversations about it. The owner was in the room at the time that the tech told me that they deliberately avoided foreheads and overheard what we were saying. She came over and took over the conversation and told the tech that they would give me a "double treatment" of Titan on my forehead that day to make up for the one I didn't get the first time. I was kind of thinking that maybe the tech was wrong in what she told me. Just felt confused but already concerned about honesty, too. But I opted for givig them the benefit of the doubt that day. Later, when I realized how dissatisifed I was with the clinic's overall service (the staff was always very pleasant) I called the maker of the machine and talked to a technical expert who told me there was no such thing as a "double treatment." So, in effect, I only got 2 treatments, not the 3 I paid for. But at the time I was receiving the "double treatment" I thought they knew what they were doing and believed I was getting double the benefits. The owner did the double job herself with the tech watching, and it was apparent that the tech had never been trained to do foreheads at all because she kept asking the owner how to do them while she watched. I was slightly suspicious of their truthfulness at this point, but their pleasantness and professionalism on the surface made me think and hope that everything would turn out alright, and I decided to wait to see results and was still very excited and hopeful to do so. Personally, I also was not comfortable accusing them of fraud or anything like that, but it was difficult to reconcile the conversations I had with the tech versus the owner on at least 3 -- maybe more -- occasions before I cancelled the Fraxel in favor of what she had to offer. I was clearly expressing an interest in forehead tightening and made it clear that I was giving up the other office's Fraxel package because her clinic's package included forehead tightening. I told the Fraxel office why I was canceling with them, and they offered me a discount to stay with them and also gave me specific questions to ask the other clinic, which I did. The Titan/Genesis clinic's owner told me that it sounded like the Fraxel people were just trying to keep my business by saying their service was superior. Now that I think about, she never directly answered the question comparing Genesis to Fraxel, but her comment did lead me to believe that she was saying that Genesis was not inferior to Fraxel. I should have pushed it more; but, just on the human level, us consumers sometimes are not well versed enough to detect deception or aversion when we hear it. I wanted to believe her because she offered more results for the same money. So I had the double Titan treatment at my second session and went back for the third treatment session for a regular Titan treatment and my third Genesis treatment. In the meantime, I was still using the Epionce and my face was an oily mess with new acne and new scars. Severe. Then I waited for results and saw none. I probably would have overlooked the deceit I suspected about the Titan forehead treatments if I felt satisfied overall in general. But when I had nothing to show but new scars after spending $3200 plus several hundred more in products that they suggested would make the laser results better, I decided to contact them. I was extremely courteous in my letter and specifically questioned the Titan forehead issue. I got no response. So I sent a second friendly letter and got a reply from the owner that said that I should come back for them to see my results and that they would give me a third Titan treatment just on my forehead. So I contacted the Titan company again and was told that the length of time that had elapsed while I was waiting to see results was too long for another single Titan treatment to be of any use because they have to be spaced just so. The Titan people also denied that their machine is ineffective on foreheads. (I talked to all companies involved in the lasers and Epionce and saw that none were too happy to talk to me when they realized my dissatisfaction with one of their operators, so I posed the questions as just general inquires so I could get info.) So, in addition to apparently deceiving me about Titan forehead treatments to begin with even though I made it very clear this was my main area of interset regarding Titan tightening (even moments before my first laser treatment) they were now apparently trying to deceive me again by allowing me to make the 6-hour round trip to their office for another treatment that would be useless due to elapse of time. Unless they didn't know the time element themselves, but certainly they should if they are in the laser business. So I wrote another letter this time which was still civil but less friendly than the first two which were extremely pleasant because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt as people. I asked for a refund due to their inappropriateness and lack of accuracy (if not outright lack of truthfulness) which I pointed out in detail. I never heard from them again despite contacting them in writing numerous times. Probably a dozen times. Certified letter. Some of them asked for a refund of the products I still had, too, which they said they would do when I bought them if I was dissatisfied, but they never addressed that, either. I would have been satisifed if they just found a way to give me a proportional refund of the Titan treatment pertaining to the forehead, but they offered me nothing but a useless treatment. I believe in the first letter they alluded to the waiver which I signed that said the results were not guaranteed. I was not contesting the results, or lack thereof. I was contesting the lack of truthfulness. The owner seemed like a nice person to me. Perhaps her business ambitions lead her to do things on the fly that she might not have if she had thought about it better; nevertheless, I was the one who was injured (new scars), deceived and deprived of the funds it took me a long to save. I also think the clinic was newly opened, so perhaps I also suffered from their lack of experience. But I think I should have been compensated for that -- not ignored and lied to. The first letter I wrote was ignored. The second one was replied to with more deception to cover the first one. And the rest of the many letters were again ignored. In the meantime, we had very extreme health emergencies in the household which made it clear that I probably would never again afford any skin rejuvenation treatments. So I went to the Better Business Burean to try to mediate the return of some of my money. The skin care clinic did finally respond when the BBB got involved. But they again lied. Their response said that I was badgering them with numerous contacts so they finally had to stop responding to me. In reality, they never responded to anything other than my second letter (which was really just a friendly reminder that I was waiting for a reply to the first one)and that brief reply just said they had been too busy to answer me earlier, and that they were completely unaware that I only had 2 Titan treatments (not true because the tech and the onwer had a big discussion about it while the owner gave me my fake "double treatment") and that they would treat my forehead alone (months later which was useless)if I would make another 6-hour round trip drive to their office. I seriously considered suing them myself either in Small Claims but the total amount involved was enough for me to do so in a higher court as well, and I felt I could represent myself since I had some experience typing pleadings and knew a little about filing motions and such. The effort seemed worth trying to get back the over $4000 I spent in the office and maybe some damages from a higher court if I chose that instead of Small Claims. However, this would have to take place in the county where the business was located, which was that 6-hour away place, so due to the health issues in the family, I just had to let it go because we were having everything from dialysis, organ transplants, heart surgeries and a stroke and life was crazy enough without filing a lawsuit on the other side of the state. If it weren't for that, I would have based on their behavior which I easily would have forgiven had they tried to correct it in any way. But after reading some of the posts on this site, I decided to share this story to warn other consumers to beware. I would recommend having laser treatments in doctors' offices only and not in a laser skin care clinics like the one I went to in Vancouver, which seemed very professional on the surface, but their behavior towards me was anything but. I don't know if the owner started out to intentionally deceive me or was just too rambunctious in trying to build her business, but they certainly did intentionally lie to me and the BBB as we went along. I came out the loser no matter what, but I hope that the clinic at least learned to treat future clients with more respect and honesty by me pursuing them as I did. I never did see any tightening from Titan and no improvement from Genesis. Was this the lasers or the operators? I don't know for sure. But they also treated me for broken capillares with a separate device (part of Genesis, I believe) and at each of my 3 sessions, they always did this last. I saw very little improvement from that, either, and as I pointed out to them in my complaints, I think it was a bad idea for the owner to treat me after the Titan and Genesis were already complete because by then my face was beet red so the capillaries just blended in with all that redness so were never treated properly because they weren't visible in all that redness. Again, I suspect inexperience was a factor, but I shouldn't have to pay for the inexperience, and I should have been compensated for their other "mistakes" too. The statue of limitations has now expired so I can no longer ask the courts for remedy now that the other health issues have settled down after over 3 years, but please be aware that when they try to give you that "you signed a waiver" excuse, trying to make you think you have no recourse, it's not true. You do not waive away your right to be treated with a lack of fraudulent behavior by signing a statement that says results are not guaranteed. If money is no object to you, then it's no great loss if you invest in a clinic and get no results. But it was my life's savings and my skin was actually worse afterwards. Live and learn ...I hope they did to. I was treated horribly.

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With every passing month a new laser comes onto the market. It is now impossible to keep up with each development. Our policy has become that we will not bring a new laser into our practice unless the company allows us to use it for free for enough time to treat friends so that we quickly acquire an experience. We did not do this with the Fraxel and that turned out to be the worst investment we ever made. We found it painful, not very effective unless we did many treatments, etc. It now has been sold for a fraction of what we paid. The Mixto has been an entirely diffent esperience.

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