Also try: Fraxel Laser
Anyone willing to share whether their fraxel experience was painful? worried it will rival my laser skin resurfacing experience (white hot pain!)
Anyone willing to share whether their fraxel experience was painful? worried it will rival my laser skin resurfacing experience (white hot pain!)
fraxel & pain go hand in hand.
did fraxel for age spots and it was like my face was getting peeled back. be prepped for agony (janet - take drugs ahead!)
I just had my first treatment last night and I had no idea how much this would hurt. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most painful, I'd put it at a 6. Next time I'm going to have them put lots more numbing cream on my face and get a couple nerve blocks. I'm sure grateful to have something that will help my skin, but as I said to the guy in the elevator who watched me put that ice pack all over my red, swollen face, "Maybe having bad skin ain't so bad. It sure hurts less." I just wish I had been better prepped. Luckily for me, my treatments are a month apart so that they won't be lasering totally new skin, which would be far more painful.
The actual treatment is not painful at all as long as you leave the numbing cream on for the full hour ...however...the day following my fraxel treatment was horrible. I woke up in the morning with swollen shut eyes, huge swollen cheeks and I looked like I was disfigured! My face was scarlet red all day and then began flaking the next day which no amount of moisturizer could soothe. I was not prepared for this or warned so it came as quite a shock, I took anti-inflammatories for 3 days. There definitely is "downtime" and when they say you can return to work - unless you work for a freak show you need to go straight home and stay there for a few days! I doubt I will do any further treatments based on the amount of recovery time it took after the first one.
I always felt that I have had a high pain tolerance... however, the fraxel (after a vicodin and Zanax) was still very painful. The first "pass" and even the second was really OK... it was the 3rd pass. Especially my upper lip and chin area. Feels like someone is raking a razor blade across an open wound. The hour ride home is pure hell, but after I get home and take an hour or so nap, I would wake up and not have ANY pain. I would be swollen, but NO pain at all.
Maybe a 4-5 on scale of 1-10 (10 being worst). SLATHER the numbing cream & leave on a FULL hour (my Dr. timed it with a kitchen timer). I also took (2) X-strength Tylenol when I got to the office. Recovery is not bad, a tingling sensation for 1-2 days then just peeling & tightness that was annoying, but not painful.
I think this may not have been worth it! I had the first treatment ( and my last!) Thursday. It is now Sunday and each day I wake up with more swelling and discomfort. My eyes were almost swollen shut this morning and still look as if the whole upper eyelid is filled with water! If I had known how miserable I would feel I never would have done this. They said "slight swelling for a day or two and then some reddening and brozing". What a laugh. I look like road kill and there is no way in hell I would get another treatment as the pain level went up to a 7 ( on a scale of 10) at times. That was with the numbing creme working for an hour and half first. And this with someone who is considered the "best" in my city. No way would I do this again There had better be some pretty incredible results after this pain and cost!!!
I just had a fraxel treatment on Thursday & I read your blog here that you posted a few months ago where you had it too. How did the whole thing turn out...was it worth it in the end? When did you finally heal?
LOVED the email by judith wigren-slack. I had EXACTLY the same experience. I just finished my first treatment on Thursday of last week. It is Sunday (three days after the procedure), and I am still very swollen. Like you, my eyes were swollen almost completely shut since about three hours after the procedure and were full of edema. So were my lower eyes, and it looks like I might have some bruising under the eyes from this. I actually got online to see if anyone else had a similar experience since I was a little worried about what was happening. I have had three microlaser peels over the past two years, my last one being a little over a year ago. I was told this fraxel laser procedure would have less "downtime". What an absolute JOKE. I had a lot less swelling from the microlaser peel than this procedure. I am very red and "bronzed looking" right now, and the flaking is starting. I look like a freak, too, and have not been able to leave the house. Unless I have unbelievable results, I will not go back for my second one either. I would do the microlaser peel first. I thought I was a veteran visitor to the dermatologist's office and thought of myself as a person with a very high tolerance for pain.This tests all those beliefs. They need to warn people that this has more side effects and pain level than they are alluding in their sales pitch!!!!!!!
I had my first treatment 3-days(Friday) ago. I am a little red & my skin is a little flakey, but I am at work (Mon). The day after (Sat), I put on make-up and went to a reception. Sure, I was a little swollen...but not so bad that I couldn't leave the house. Sunday, I was at church and went grocery shopping. Everyone is different...as far as "was it painful"...it wasn't the most fun I ever had, but it wasn't the worsed either. The 1st and 2nd pass were ok, the 3rd was a little harder & by the 4th I was glad they were done. The nurse gave me some "stress-balls" to squeeze...which helped. All and all it wasn't that bad...just go prepared.
I'm a small lightweight person whom medication dramatically affects. For whatever it's worth, I felt little to no pain on the first pass, only moderate pain on the 2nd, by the end of 15 minutes areas getting repeat passes hurt but very manageable. The numbing cream was heavily applied and put on for a FULL hour, and I took two pills beforehand (can't remember what they gave me!).
The MD who performed my procedure was one of the clinicians who worked on the development of Fraxel laser.I was told the pain was manageable -- and it was. The actual procedure -- with the full dose of numbing cream -- was tolerable. For five hours after, though, I was pretty miserable. As soon as one ice-pack lost its iciness, I was racing for a new one. I tool tylenol and advil. After five hours, I was fine -- felt sunburned and a little puffy, though. Day 2, a little puffy, a little red. But OK. In any case, I am NOT looking forward to treatment #2. I'll ask for the drugs to take after the provcedure.
I just had the Fraxel done Friday, and its Sunday, I thought the pain was a 10/10! I am a bit of a baby but jesus! It felt like a thousand white hot bee stings and I clenched my fists as hard as I could to stand the pain, the only thing that kept me from stopping it is the fact that I paid a nonrefundable 3500 dollars! I kept thinking of the results and was a trooper! It went fast tho, I didnt take anything beforehand, next time Ill be sure to take some narcotics before I go! She went pretty deep because my acne scarring is pretty bad, she said next time shell go deeper :( and Ill need more than 4 or 5 to get good results! I pray its going to be worth it! The pain afterwards was nothing! Just like a bad sunburn for 2 hours and then a mild sunburn for the night, mild swelling the first night and just some redness and peeling afterwards, nothing like the others said, with swollen eyes! They must have had a bad reaction!
I just had fraxel done yesterday. They used a new numbing mask on me - only 30 minutes or so. I didn't take narcotics. I thnk the lady missed the sides of my nose because they hurt when she zapped them, but the rest was no worse than a 2 or 3 level of pain out of 10. There were some areas where I didn't even feel it at all. The worst part was after when I felt like my face was on fire. They told me to sleep sitting up or I would get realy bad swelling. I did, swelling is only noticeable by me - even my husband says i look OK. I was able to wear mineral makeup today and go shopping. Oddly, i felt a little weak whn I worked out. Now, I look sunburnt, my skin feels tight.
I told my technicial I was less interested in results and most intrested in experiencing the least amount of pain and a quick recovery time. No swollen eyes. I knew if I had a bad experience I would never do it again. I told her to come off 1/3 of what she planned to do. It was still painful, but tolerable. As soon as my eyes started to swell she stopped...probably 1/2 way thru that section. My recovery was quick. Pain gone in 2 hrs. Red for a few days. Swollen eyes for one night. No big deal. I'll do it again.
But have my technicial apply numbing cream again, 1/2 way thru procedure, on my forehead and around lips, most painful for me. My skin looks better already
I had Fraxel on Friday. Today is Tuesday and I still won't leave the house. I am not just pink, I am a violent deep beet-red and my skin is "flaking" terribly--in large white chunks. Thank goodness I don't have to go to work, as I would easily frighten small children and probably grown men as well.
I didn't find the procedure painful at all, but the discomfort started on the way home and I was amazed at the extreme swelling and discoloration, even though I followed the icing instructions. My skin is still tender to touch and looks almost burned. I was supposed to have another Fraxel in a couple of weeks and later Thermage. Forget it! I think I have a fairly high pain threshold, but the appearance afterward, combined with what looks to be a lengthy recovery are not worth it to me. Maybe I'll feel it was worth it in a few weeks, but my husband thinks I'd be crazy to do this again, no matter what.
I have now had three Fraxel treatments. I do think it is painful, but tolerable (with more than an hour of numbing cream plus a Vicodin). Someone described it as a thousand white-hot bee stings. I'd agree with that. The passes go quickly though, so just about the time that you're thinking I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!, they've moved on to the next section. My face has been very red afterward. For about two hours, it feels like a really bad sunburn, then it doesn't really feel like anything. Day 2 and 3, I've been swollen. I haven't looked horrible, but I look like I would probably look if I was overweight. By day 4, I'm pretty normal looking. My doctor definitely does NOT recommend taking any anti-inflammatories. The whole point of the Fraxel is for your body to respond to the wound--so you don't want to suppress that.
There is definitely a difference in my face. My skin is more taut, and any hyperpigmentation I had is gone. I am 49 and I think this treatment took a few years off for sure. (I've always taken good care of my skin, though.) After the first treatment, nearly all of the sun damage discoloration on my chest was gone. I was surprised and very happy about that.
The only thing I'm not really happy with is the skin on my neck. I had hoped for more tightening there. I don't notice a whole lot of difference.
In any event, I am going to have at least one more treatment, and will probably do the 5.
Fraxel generally is painful if no anesthetic is used. I have not done one treatment where the person has had no analgesia and said there was no pain. However, i have found premedication with analgesic medication, local anesthetic cream and dental blocks very helpful. i also use cold air and ice packs which should make your treatment fairly comfortable. Is it a walk in park? No! but it can be made very tolerable such that you can benefit from the excellent results that fraxel provides.
Sachit Shah
View answers from Dr. Sachit ShahDr. Shah,
Can you advise as to what dental blocks are used? My husband is an oral surgeon, and would be happy to give them to me, but doesn't know the protocol for fraxel. My dermatologist does not offer this service as part of the preparation, and after having one treatment, I would be very happy to have something other than the numbing cream to prepare me for the laser.
Thank you for your input. Suzan Taylor
I had my first Fraxel treatment today and it was far more tolerable than what I have read on this site. I would describe any discomfort I felt as the sensation of removing a band-aid ... and not by ripping with great force ... just gently removing. There were also parts of my face which did not experience any discomfort. They left the numbing cream on for just a little over an hour and I was told that was key in alleviating pain. I used cold air during the procedure, but I'm not sure that was necessary ... but perhaps it did contribute to my very low level of discomfort. After the procedure they applied a moisturizing mask and then a sunscreen. I left feeling a slight burning that you would feel from a sunburn, but that only lasted a couple of hours and I have minimal swelling ... just some slight puffiness which is already starting to subside.
So far this experience and procedure has exceeded my expectations.
I'm curious at what strength and which fraxel were involved? There're three types: Refine, Restore and Repair. Refine is the weakest and Repair is the strongest. Refine and Restore seems to have the same recovery time (according to the clinician I talked to) which doesn't make sense to me.
I'm 32 years old, Mexican & Irish and used to tan all the time in my teens & 20's. Now my skin is showing it!
I am going in for my 3rd Fraxel treatment tomorrow. So far I am dissapointed with the results. The treatments are $1000 each and I expected to see at least something after my second treatment. I'm hoping that after my 3rd treatment tomorrow I will see some results!
As for pain, it hurts. My first treatment I didn't have any pain meds, just the numbing cream on my face, and I just about passed out. I started at level 12 because I want to be aggressive and get rid of this Melasma!(it ranges from a level 6 and up for Melasma). I had to hold my breath and wanted to scream but I couldn't because the pain took my breath away. It feels like a hot curling iron being rolled on your face! Ouch! I was told it's not that bad... Yes it is. My second treatment was at a level 15 and I took a vicodin 1 hour before the session began, right after the numbing cream was put on my face. It was still very very painful but no more than the first session. Tomorrow I am going to be at a level 18, possibly at level 20. I'm not sure yet. I will be taking a Vicodin to help with the pain again. I don't use ice packs because they can cause hyperpigmentaion when applied to wounded skin. I am trying to get rid of sun spots, hyperpigmentation/melasma & old acne marks. During the procedure I do have cold air blasting around my face and it helps take the edge off.
Good luck to all of you and wish me luck tomorrow! After 3 treatments and $3000 I hope to see my dark brown spots/patches vanish!
Hi Cheshire,
1. Do you know which Fraxel? Refine or Restore? I recalled someone mention level 60?
2. How long is each treatment? In other words, how many passes have they ran it over your face?
Fraxel treatments, how do I love thee, let me count the ways! I'm a 51y/o male registered nurse. I've had a few skin treatments in the past with good, but temporary results. One year ago I finished a 4 treatment Fraxel of my Face and neck. The pain was murderous, I didn't take drugs because I had to drive. The 4th and 5th pass does feel like a razor blade slicing your face. I did take medications for the 4th treatment and it was amazingly more tolerable. Results? The first 3 weeks I looked 20 years younger (swelling only)...over the next 4 months I looked my age and older, but I was patient, anxious, and not concerened. After 4 months literally every day I could see improvement. It became rapid. At 6 months I was routinly mistaken for being in my 20's. I was being carded at resturants for wine. The improvement continues to this day, a year later! I'm in awe of this treatment. I have fair skin, not everyone will have similar results. I personally don't think you will get significant visible results with just one treatment. You certainly can't judge it's final results at the end of a week...it does take months, but you can almost set your watch when the results start to begin. Pain? Hell yes, but I'm getting this done once a year for the rest of my life. Hey, childbirth is painful, but what a joy with the results. When I tell people my real age I'm often out and out called a lyer. It doesn't appear to work well with acne, but people are very impatient.
Talk with your Docter what will work for you, individually our skin and phsyiology are different. But we are still all one. Bono said the last part and I agree. Love Rob
Rob, how far apart were your four treatments spaced? My doctor requires patients to wait 4-6 weeks b/w treatments. Consequently, with vacations and such thrown in, by the time I have my fifth treatment, a year will have passed. Just curious?
It is very painful, I am having drugs next time. It's only been a week since my first treatment and I have white heads all over my face and I look worse than I did before. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this post treatment delema. I am going to try to keep the faith as I have already paid for 4 treatments with three to go, God forbid, but three to go. I've spent thousands of dollars on facial products trying to get rid of scars and dark spots etc... I'm sure like everyone else;I only pray that this works. I will in three weeks force myself back to the torture chamber for another treatment in hopes that this was the right decision.
Painful O yes during the first treatment I took a Zanax ,vicodin,and soma. Forgot the Zanax next time and it was much worse.Third time they gave me a shot or Toridal,didnt work at all . My vote take every thing you can.The results of the procedure are worth the pain by the forth one.
Follow Up from my last post:
I went for my 3rd treatment and was at a level 25. I get 8 passes of the laser on every section of my face. I am really dissapointed with the results. I had my 3rd Fraxel 3 weeks ago and my face is still discolored. It's darker than the rest of my body, and all my sun spots/melasma are still there. Soem spots have got a tiny bit lighter but I have also developed new brown spots/patches since starting the treatments. I was told that I needed 3 to 4 sessions for optimal results. I was told my brown patches would not be visible anymore after the 3rd session. Well, they are very visible 3 treatments later. My 4th and final session is on the 28th. But now my nurse tells me I might need 6 session to get the best results! I have developed a sensitivity to sunscreens since my 3rd treatment. I broke out in a horrible red itchy rash from a sunscreen I have been using for a long time. I am going in tomorrow to talk to the derm about what is going on. Not only do I still have all my sun damage & melasma, but I can't wear sunscreen or I get a horrible rash. It itches like crazy and looks like patches of red and small pimples from my cheeks to my temples and my forhead. The nurse keeps assuring me everyone is different and my face won't stay dark. Well she also told me my face is fully healed 2 weeks after treatment so which one is the truth? I have been having my treatments a month apart. I'm hoping my face will return to it's natural color and I just live with the brown patches. The Fraxel treatments are just making it worse. I don't reccomend Fraxel and I don't like that I have had no results other than a dark face when it was lasered, new brown spots and pimples. Hiding out in my house in dark rooms to avoid the sun is no fun. I can wear sunscreen and get a rash and more brown spots or stay inside in a dark room and avoid the itchy pimply rash. It's a lose lose situation.
Hi Cheshire,
Yeah, sunscreen can be irritating; esp. the chemical block. Talk to the nurse for recommendation of physical block such as Benev SPF25 which uses Titanium Dioxide. I wonder what kinda of post-treatment regimen your dermatologist recommended. Also, I would take the full 6-week wait or more if necessary. It really sounded like you didn't give your face sufficient time to recovery before going for another treatment.
Hello Cheshire,
Are you using a sunscreen that has Zinc and Titaniam dioxide only? You are not supposed to use a sunscreen with lots of chemical ingredients after any laser treatment because of the exact thing you are talking about. If your nurse didn't tell you that, she should have.
Fallene Cotz is a really good one. There are others as well, I just happen to like that one.
Use only products that are advertised for post laser treatment. And if you use makeup, use a good mineral make-up like Jane Iredale-also recommended for post laser.
I waited a full year to get my get my first Fraxel done mainly because some of the comments about the "severe" pain had me really worried that this was a really big deal. I just had my first one yesterday. All I can say is that I have to believe that with the people who are experiencing severe pain, someone is doing something VERY wrong. Either the Doctor or nurse involved doesn't understand how long the numbing ointment needs to stay on or they aren't using the right kind or they don't know how to use the laser.
Also, I did Fraxel II, so maybe it's Fraxel I that is painful. The Fraxel II settings they used for me were 50 and 7. I think that's the depth and the number of pixels (?). They did 10 passes. Anyway,I'm told that's not a light setting . Oh, and I didn't go to a Plastic Surgeon who happens to have a laser, or a Medispa that has no Doctor on staff. I went to the largest and oldest laser surgery center in the metropolitan area I am in. They have 5 Dermatologists on staff and a ton of nurses and assistants. They have been using the Fraxel laser since it first came out. So they know what they are doing.
The pain for me? Well...there wasn't really any. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most painful, it was a 1 or 2.
The numbing ointment was on for, I think, an hour and a half. I am pretty swollen today. But there is no discomfort or heat.
So, big deal indeed.
I had my first Fraxel done on Feb. 14 and it wasn't bad at all. There was hardly any pain and any swelling. I thought it felt like a bad sun burn but that was all. I could see results the next week and so could my friends. I'm going this week for my second treatment. I thought chemical pills at my dermatologist office was a lot worse.
I just had my first procedure today. I typically have a fairly high tolerance for pain, but this was worse then I expected. When she was half way through the first cheek I just couldn't imagine how I was going to make it through the entire face and neck! Around the mouth and eyes wasn't that bad, but forehead, cheeks and neck were quite painful. I just had the block, nothing else. After leaving, my neck felt a bit hot for about an hour, but the ice pack they had supplied took care of that. Since then I have felt nothing at all. My face it swollen and red, but I feel normal... It is not something I look forward to doing again, but if I get a good result I will go back in 4 weeks. I'll post back in a month or so to report on results.
Does anyone know of a good, reputable laser facility in houston, texas where the Fraxel is performed?
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I have had 3 fraxels for acne scarring this year. It was extremely painful. But, nothing is as painful as the scars caused by acne. I took a Xanax and half a percocet that I had leftover from another surgery. I'm still swollen from the 3rd one because it has only been 3 days. I only saw about 10-15% improvement so far for the scarring but the pigment of my skin is very even. (no sun blotches anymore--- it's amazing how much better you look with even skin tone) I'm hoping that the scars will have more improvement this time... and I plan to have Silikon injections next month.
I just had Fraxel re:pair CO2 laser done. I'm not sure if this is the same as you're going to have. The office that I had mine done in gives you pain meds, antibiotics and valium. Once those are kicked in, they numb you with what they call a dental block, like the novicaine the dentists use. Once you've had that, you can actually still feel the laser. The girl warned me that it I was going to still feel pain but it really wasn't bad at all. The procedure only took 15-20 minutes. I had mine done last Friday and went back to work on Wed. Still red, no swelling, and my face feels very dry. I had acne scaring which already looks better. I'm not impressed with the wrinkles around my mouth area though. I was hoping I wouldn't be able to even see them afterwards. I'm actually on here to try and figure out what a good moisturizer would be to use after this procedure.
Best of luck to you!!! The little bit of pain will be worth the results!
I had my fraxel Thursday afternoon. I was told that the pain was minimal. I had the anesthetic on for one hour before my treatment. I almost jumped off the table at the very start. He did a little more but had to stop as I was in so much pain. He gave me a shot of demerol and waited about 25 minutes. It took the edge off and he was able to finish. Friday morning and I am very red and swollen. Next time they are going to put the anesthetic on for two hours. Sure hope it helps.
To Tracy K...
I've had some very dry skin problems this winter and started using some Mario Badescu products on my face. They have been incredible. I've used a Bee Pollen night cream on my very very sensitive, dry neck. It's normal skin now. Wonderful.
Also, when I went to buy these products at Nordstrom, I questioned the cashier because I thought she'd not charge me properly. I'm so used to spending a fortune for items, and the Mario products are insanely inexpensive.
I have tried a lot of things over the years, microdermabrasion, peels, oxygen facials so the more I read about Fraxel the more interested I became in a series. I have medium scarring. I felt the pain to be a 4 on a 1-10 scale. It just felt like prickling energy, nothing intolerable at all. The cold air was so cold, that seem to be too much cuz it felt so cold. After the treatment, I was a little swollen, nothing major. It took 4 days til the slight redness subsided and the sandpaper feel went away. My first treatment she used full energy on me. I guess my skin is very strong and or thick, I was told. This was easy and ok. I have gotten comments from others I look better. I used a zinc cream and it helped a lot. I think it depends on the level of thickness you have of skin. THis is with the new fraxwl 1500 machine, this is totally tolerable. cant wait for all the treatments, anything is better than having slight scarring from acne in your youth. non ablative and ablative results, love it go fraxel. I had a specialist dermatoligist doing the treatments. I dont recommend just a regular technician
I had fraxel repair yesterday. I was given vicodan, percocet, numbing cream (1hr prior) and many dental blocks. I would guess about 17 in all. I had my neck done as well. Today, my eyes are nearly swollen shut and my face is very swollen. I look like a monster. I didn't think the procedure was very bad, but when I got up in the middle of the night and looked in the mirror. I got weak and nearly passed out. Very frightening. My face feels miserable. It's mainly due to the swelling I think. How do you know if you have an infection? Does anyone know?
Sharkey can you tell me how your are doing now? I really want to have this Fraxel even if it is so painful but I want to get results.
Stay well and thanks.
I had my second Fraxel treatment on Thursday to treat mild orange-peel scarring and sun damage. I'm fair with sensitive skin, so for my first treatment they began with the machine on a conservative setting. I was given 1/2 a Vicodin before the 20-minute procedure and the other half afterward. The pain was brief but tolerable, like getting snapped in the face with a rubber band; I'd give it a 2 or 3 on a scale of 1 to 10. My face felt hot for the rest of the afternoon. I had very little swelling, but did turn red. I slept sitting up and was only a little pink the next day. I never experienced flaking. In short, the first treatment was so painless I worried I'd get no benefit from it at all. Fortunately I noticed some slight tightening right away and started to see improvement in both clarity and smoothness just before going in for my second treatment at four weeks.
For the second treatment I asked for a stronger setting. I had to drive myself home this time, so instead of Vicodin I got numbing cream. The pain was exactly the same--mild to moderate (my upper lip was a bit more sensitive) and brief, like repeated snaps from a rubber band. I turned red and had only slight swelling. Two days later, I'm pinkish-red and my skin has turned rough, so I'm hoping to get some flaking. I say "hoping" because I have the impression flaking leads to more dramatic improvement.
I have two additional treatments after this and I'm looking forward to the gain without dreading the pain. I haven't had any of the problems others have experienced with terrible agony or swollen eyelids, so if you're considering Fraxel, don't assume those are universal responses.
Ok, I need to talk to someone...I was totally unprepared for this and I admit, I should have done more research. I went to the dermatologist to have a very tiny amount of botox in my forehead. I am getting married in ~6 months and I wanted to even out my skin tone and fraxel was suggested. Side effects were a mild sunburned appearance. It was not that painful, but OH MY GOD! I am freaking out. I am swollen, red, and now I have all these little whiteheads around my nose, mouth and cheeks. I was not told about the swelling or to ice so I have just left everything alone. I have washed with cetaphyl and am moisturizing 2x/day. I had this done on 4/11 and have been so upset ever since. I am really worried that the whiteheads will scar. Is that usually the case?? There are a lot of whiteheads and although they are tiny I have never seen anything like this before. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
The pain is horrible. It was similar to childbirth when my epidural failed. You need the dental blocks and maybe a twilight too. The 1 hour slather on your face is worthless. It doesn't help at all.