Facial massage, an alternative to Botox?

  • 9 months ago

Has anyone tried this before? It sounds intriguing.  You do it 1-3 times a day, but no word on how long it takes before you see botox quality results.  What do you think? 



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Sorry about the links. I forgot. Anyway, I was just saying that there is a video on Youtube showing the Tua Viso being used by Tina Richards to massage the area where 11's form to keep them at bay. So that's another example of facial massage being used in the same way.
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Its interesting as the creator of that pinch and roll method shared her photos at 60 plus and I think she looked fabulous (Deb Crowley). There are quite a few photos out there with people who have done the pinch and roll method - but it always bemuses me that certain people like to try and persuade others not to do it.
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LOL you sure read a lot into stuff, don't you? I don't know who persuaded anyone not to try the pinch and roll. I most certainly never did. I simply stated my opinion of it and that has never changed: I WOULD NEVER DO THAT! On April 13, 2007 on a forum called YTF, it was suggested that had I not stopped a program that gave me puffy eyes but had tried the pinch and roll, it would have reduced the puffiness in my eyes. Considering that I had yet to see anyone whose eyes didn't look puffy after committing to that program, I asked one of the moderators if there were any photos to show improvement of puffiness from this. She posted my question on the forum for that program that very same day. Can you say *crickets*. On May 2, 2007, I followed up to see if anyone had responded. No one had. And to date, not a single person has ever posted photos showing how they had puffiness they got from that program and then how it reduced with pinch and roll. People post a lot of stuff claiming success...but talk is cheap (See below**). I need to see photos. The program founder's words don't hold much water with me. The last time I took her at her word, I got burned so never again. Besides, there is no evidence she ever had the "awkward stage" she told us we would all get past and I have my own conclusions on that. What's more, not only do I have copies of many posts of people who had the same puffiness and found no relief so the moved on (plus I am in touch with some of those who never did get beyond the awkward stage while doing the program and have shown me photos ;-) -- did I mention I love evidence?) but since you et al love to accuse me of lying, I once posted evidence of someone whose photos are posted on the before after page showing progress within two months of doing the program and the improvement is impressive to see. But it is a whole different story 2 years later. Not only did she develop crows' feet that had been NON-EXISTENT just two years prior when she smiled, but on October 15, 2010, she posted on the forum asking for help to fix a ridge created between her eyes and cheek. Her eyes were puffy when she wasn't smiling and she had crow's feet WHEN NOT SMILING!!! The ridge was due to this bulge under her eye that made there appear to be a dip before her cheek. I don't even think she was 39 yet! And this is someone whose eyes were the most youthful in the before/after pages just 3 years before! Incidentally she had been doing the pinch and roll as far back as 2007 as she posted about doing it. So yeah, if her eyes are an example of what to expect 3 years after pinch and roll, y'all can keep it.
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**I forgot the footnote I pointed to upthread. Why I say talk is cheap is there is a member who seemed to love how this massage felt when she first did. She was so excited she started a thread to post about if making many people follow suit. But this same person later posted about her face looking bad...her posts have since been deleted (but guess who has a copy!!!).The photos she posted on August 2007 showed bags and sag in cheeks that had developed from the previous pic. A complete downhill journey. Of course it didn't last long before she moved on but also her before/after photos which were such a bad transition were also taken down... A good move unless the idea is to scare people away. So yeah, talk is cheap. Pictures speak a thousand words. And believe me, I've heard enough!
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Oh...and you know what's so funny, the day she^^ started the thread singing praises about the pinch and roll was in April 2007. The day she posted a horrible photos that looked like she could use a face lift was in August 2007.... 4 months later. Now where have I heard that before?
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I read a lot into things... strange because sometimes its helpful. "I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" isn't persuading people not to try pinching and rolling - funny but alas sharing such an opinion looks to me like you are trying to persuade people not to do it. Wow you never cease to amaze me with the vengeance and anger in your messages towards that program and its creator and trainers. It cant be that healthy to be holding on to it still for all this length of time. Nevermind, I do the pinching and rolling and I'm not going to share photos but it definitely works for me. When I have seen others start to share good feedback they often get knocked down by comments from people like yourself who can be extremely harsh and unkind.
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??Can you say *crickets*?? What on earth does that mean? As to the founders words not holding a lot for you, well the same is true in respect to her opinion of you. I see repeatedly they’ve asked to validate that you did purchase the program but you have never been able to prove it so it makes me think you are lying sometimes in your messages – otherwise why not just shut us all up and prove it? Strange for someone who claims to be so virtuous and can’t do that small little thing – it would validate all you have said.
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Hey guys- I think this is getting a little off topic.  I get that you guys disagree about a facial exercise program.  You've both said your piece, is it possible to respectfully disagree with each other and move on? 
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Vengeance? LOL Did anyone see me plotting revenge? I love to discuss face exercises and love to share what I have found beneficial to me and what I have not. Flex Effect falls on my list of " not recommended" and it is my prerogative to talk about it all I want, to be mad about what it did to me and the treatment I got from Deborah Crowley the program founder for speaking the truth about her program, be angry about her slander of me, and to speak of my disbelief of anything she has to offer. I do find it funny how you seem to take it so personal as if you have a vested interest in the program. Why do you care that I do not like Flex Effect or Deb? I am not the only one who has expressed disatisfaction. She has deleted a lot of the posts on her forum by disatisfied clients because she is not an upfront person. But you can't hide the truth for long. I was in a discussion about Dr Schultz youtube video where he says face exercises are not good for you (Just do a search for Dr Schultz face exercises on Youtube). The last comment was from someone who says she believes him because of what Flex Effect did to her face. Ha! That feedback has not been deleted and while I would love to respond to Dr Schultz and tell him my positive experience , I would have had to echo those sentiments about Flex Effect because unlike you who wants dirt swept under the carpet, I prefer to be honest with people and tell them that not all face exercises will give them the results they want. An example of one that didn't and for which I have a list of photographic evidence from other victims, is Flex Effect. I wonder sometimes if Deb appreciates how much you keep opening that can of worms. Any time you stalk me to challenge me on my statements, all it does is just make matters worse for her because I go into full disclosure mode. When she recently called me a liar on EDS and I responded, I got 6 emails and a PM confirming that people had verified the facts I listed and found me to be 100% truthful. She lost a lot of marks there. Not my doing. She dug that hole. And I am not being harsh and unkind. I am being truthful. The truth does sometimes hurt but that doesn't make the one dishing it harsh. If Deborah Crowley had not ignored my attempts to contact her from July 2005 to March 2006 all the while corresponding with others who were in touch with me, I probably would be less incensed by her. And this was after she had lied to me and told me that it was safe to pull down on the eyes as hard as she does in the Second Edition DVD (the one with her face on a blue background). Then when I called her crying because my face was starting to look horrible, she told me those uglies were an "awkward stage" that I had to go through after which I would get good results. She told me to "work harder". Except my face got progressively worse the more I did Flex Effect. When I tried calling again several times, I got her VM and left messages. She never returned a single call. When I emailed her, unlike before she got my money when she responded, she never did respond. Since she was active on her forum, I joined it to send her a message. She must have known I was coming because she stopped being active and never responded to any of my private messages. I then contacted her trainers including her studio trainers who do not post on the forum. The studio trainer confirmed to me that she contacted her and relayed my message and said she did not know why Deb did not/would not get back to me. And you know what makes matters even worse, she even admitted herself being told by one of her moderators to read posts on the forum. Which means my post begging her to please come and help us, a post that brought out the fury in others who were also mad about her treatment of us, is a post she saw, yet she did not care to post and help us. A newbie then told us how she saw her at a party. So Ms Take Our Money and Run was living it up while our faces went to hell. So yes, I am still pissed. 15 blinking years of success with face exercises tossed down the drain in just 4 months by Deb Crowley and her blinking Flex Effect (I stopped doing the program in Nov 2005 but I still held onto hope that Deb would return hence my post begging her to come help us in 2006.) And as if that was not bad, she starts slander accusing me of being another poster and of being Carolyn Cleaves. And to show just how unprofessional she is, she posts these lies on the forum and turns many of the people I had developed good relationships with against me. She blocked my company's IP address, which is what everyone at my job had (the server IP address) making it impossible for anyone at my job to get on her site. So I could not even get on to defend myself. When one of my loyal friends on the site tried to defend me publicly, she got banned too. Once Deb has something in her head, she stubbornly does not let it go, which is why as late as 2011, she was posting on EDS about me calling her twice but attributed those calls to Carolyn of CFF. It was only after Carolyn joined the forum to address the false info, that those posts got deleted. This same stubbornness is why her program continues to fail because it doesn't matter how many people report problems, instead of her removing the exercises that may be a problem, like pulling down on eyes, she insists on keeping them and just adding more exercises. Why? Perhaps it is because *I* have made it public why that exercise is bad so God forbid she appear to respond to what Nonie said. LOL So yeah, you want to talk about harsh and unkind, Deborah Crowley is the epitome of that. She has not been a nice person to me. My only crime to her is I told the truth of what happened to me and continue to tell it and I refuse to respond to her requests for my order details. Why should I give her ANYTHING she wants from me? Do I look like I am interested in helping her sought out the disorder in how she keeps her records? How embarrassing to run a business in such obvious disarray! Just the other day, I heard about how someone wanting to join the 3rd Edition workshop was denied access because she was told she had the 2nd Edition program. This person apparently has the 3rd Edition but as late as 2013, Flex Effect obviously cannot get its records straight. This apparently was discussed on the main forum with one trainer confirming the poster had the third edition while another trainer told her she didn't. *shaking my head* So TheresaMary, I am sorry but I think I have a lot of reasons not to trust a thing Deb Crowley says or recommends. And just like you, she reads too much into stuff and then goes into a mad frenzy with crazy unfounded accusation thus giving me another opportunity to expose her BS. You do not see any other founders putting on the same crazy antics on forums that she does all the while neglecting their own clients. Just recently someone new on EDS told me that if Deb had not posted earlier this year that I blamed her program, she would never have known what program I refer to in my testimonial on the CFF website. She also thought Deb was mad because Deb's claim that my testimonial claims I didn't know Carolyn in 2005 was not just unfounded but completely false. She could not believe this was a grown woman running a business flying off the handle over things she is imagining. Sometimes the way you read into things that are not there makes you seem like her alter ego. And of course you will not be showing us your photos. Only people who do not show photos seem to have success with the pinch and roll. Everyone else seems unhappy and ends up seeking solutions elsewhere. Hmmm... BTW you make me blush attributing the power of persuasion to anything I say. Why thank you! I had no idea you thought so highly of me! In that case, I should start a movement toward world peace by declaring I do not like wars. LOL! BTW, the pinch and roll isn't the only thing I would never do. I would never again do Flex Effect exercises. But just so you can sleep better, I will add for the record, that no matter how much TheresaMary worships my words and clings onto every syllable, no one died and made me a god. So what I do with my life is not the law. Just because Nonie doesn't do something or believe in something doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't. It is a free world! Happy now? :cD
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Oh dear TheresaMary, why would Nonie respond to ANY requests by the Flex Effect team after all the abuse I have been subjected to? Validate a truth that I and just about everyone including Deb knows? Get the heck out of here! If Flex Effect cannot keep their records straight, I am not about to help them out. I would have to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic to even consider it. So for the umpteenth time, Mrs Crowley and her gang can forget about me providing my order records to her. I would not even do it if my life depended on it. She is one person whose needs/requests might as well be farts. Out of politeness, I act like I don't know about them, but if she insists on making me sniff them by sending you to do her bidding, then I will make an ugly face, and spit in disgust.
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Jill, I am sorry I am only now seeing your post as I got alerts about the other two earlier posts first, then yours and was responding in order. I most certainly can stick to the topic. I am sorry it got derailed but I do think it fair that facts be stated and when someone tries to make me out to be a liar when I am the only one who has ever produced factual evidence, and using a new platform where unsuspecting people can easily be misled, I think it only fair that the truth be told. I love face execises as you know but would not wish what happened to me on anyone who is excited to experience the positive effects only to discover that isn't the case. So when challenged on my statement, I think it is only fair to spell things out for those who may be confused or considering something to hear all sides. On the topic of this massage, I talked to someone who has been doing something similar to the brow it and the conclusion a few weeks into it is the forehead is looking better. I never saw any photos which makes me take the review with a pinch of salt but that is as close to getting an OK as possible.
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Plotting revenge and vengeance – its too funny as the facts really do speak for themselves here and everyone is able to view it. Your experience whilst not unique is not something that I see others saying they have experienced. You say you speak the truth – but yet every time you make a point and Deb has spoken or asked you about it you go into a rant and rave over things. You accuse me of sweeping dirt under the carpet yet you seem reluctant to prove some of these things and I still don’t get why? You keep saying she took your money and ran above, yet she’s asked you several times and offered to refund you and yet you never call her on it that I am aware of? Strange that a program that did you so much damage would go to such lengths isn’t it – doesn’t quite add up to me. I think her records are actually quite good. I even lost my CD one time and called to purchase another and she found my order right away and sent me it free of charge – not someone with messy records to me. You go into full disclosure mode? Well that must mean something very different to you than it does to me because I’ve not seen you disclose any factual details even when asked by Deb. Also for someone who dislikes the program why are you so fascinated with what takes place on their forums? I don’t take it personally, I’m nothing to do with them and have no investments in their program. I do not do any one program solely, and do not believe that I am the only one (I know I am not and people have shared that they do the same). I do agree with you that its wise to start out with just one program for a time, but then when you have that down you can and should experiment. Even programs change and switch things up – and that’s great and something I am happy about. Yes I knew you would mention Dr Schultz video again (and that comment was from 3 years ago). Its most interesting as all the time that person gets asked questions about whether she contacted the forum for help she never responds and they always get deleted too. Its also strange that she says she was told to keep going and doing it again as I’ve never seen that advice given in the last 4 years. If anything and I have been open with the trainers about this I find that they ask 101 questions before they dish out any real help nowadays. I understand now why they do it but originally found it iritating. Just for clarity I’m not worshiping your words or syllables – and am very happy and hope that someday you will be too!
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Absolutely but I think there needs to be full disclosure here, and its not fair for someones experience from several years ago to biased anyone from researching. The experience of the poster above isn't common place - one can search the forum and find this to be untrue.
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Hi Jill: I've never seen this before but it does look interesting, and she doesn't have the dreaded 11's so it's clearly working for her. I can see how this can relax glabellar muscle and therefore release that permanent contraction that causes 11's, just as Botox does, only without losing control of your muscles to paralysis, which is awesome! I hope someone with the 11's gives it a shot and gives us some feedback. There's a pinch and roll massage that some programs recommend for the eye area. It is claimed to improve the eye area, but I have to say I'd never be brave enough to try that one no matter how many times I hear about how well it works for people. (I wonder why no one ever shares photos to show the success of the method...) But if I had 11's and were not already happy with the program I am doing, this massage you posted is definitely something I would try. Thanks for sharing!
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I would love it is someone tried this out and wrote a review.  We will have to wait and see if anyone is willing.  It is interesting for sure. 

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